Endowment/Life Assurance Maturity Problems

sgn_2

Lawks, it's all a tad complicated! Might be worth just asking if they've got them. Don't quite understand why they all have their own foibles if it's all supposed to be regulated.

We're currently waiting for our solicitor's archivist (or whatever they call them) to be in on Wednesday. Apparently their strong room is in a place that's just round the corner from my partner, so we could pick up the document up by hand, with a bit of luck. If they actually do have it ... :undecided

kingstreet

When endowments were being written regularly, this was the process;-

- policy document issued by insurer to client's solicitor
- solicitor draws up assignment deed and forwards these to lender
- lender adds policy document and assignment to deeds package
- deeds package sent to secure storage.

When the mortgage was repaid, either on sale of property or at end of term, policy document and reassignment back to borrower should have been sent from lender to solicitor handling discharge of mortgage.

These may then have been re-assigned to another lender for another mortgage, or they should, at some stage have been forwarded to the policyholder by the solicitor.

Lenders who stopped holding title deeds at some point should have returned the whole deeds pack, including any policy documents, to the borrower, for their retention and safekeeping.

Imma_Number

I phoned Aviva today and they said the on their forms there is just a tick box to say you aren't returning the originals and you promise not to claim again if you do find the originals in future.

sgn_2

Yay - that sounds sensible Imma :j
In my case it was the endowment provider who sent the original policy to our solicitor. So the endowment provider would've had that action on file somewhere. Fortunately, we kept the letter they sent to us about it; we just had to mine down low in the files to find it, though. Tomorrow, with a bit of luck, I may find out if the solicitors actually have it.

The deeds were with Santander (not the endowment provider which is a different company) - and in our case these deeds are essential historical, not 'live' per se, unlike the Original policy which only matured this year. The documents in our deeds stop at the date we bought this house. Santander sent them to us before the end of our mortgage with them, presumably as they realised they could make us store it, rather than pay for storage themselves :cool: So, the policy might not necessarily be with the deeds. An additional complication, may be that the endowment was for our previous property. Will be checking to see if there are any assignment documents as mentioned by kingstreet ...

One way or another, it keeps us all amused, I guess :rotfl:

kingstreet

My first job in the industry back in 1984 was sending out "pre-LAPR abolition" endowment policies to solicitors. As I said, the insurer sent them to the solicitor, the solicitor assigned them and forwarded the policy and the assignment notice to the lender for storage. The insurer was notified that the policy was assigned, so the insurer would notify the lender if the premiums stopped and the policy lapsed and often the lender would respond by converting the account to repayment.

From issue to maturity, the insurer would not see that policy document again.

In the 1990s, lenders stopped requiring assignment, so policies were often issued to solicitors and the solicitor simply sent them to the policyholder for safekeeping.

When it comes to maturity, the original policy tends to be with;-

a lender (not necessarily the current one)
a solicitor (from any conveyance in the policy history)
the policyholder

and the insurer has to try to establish which one might have it, before accepting it's lost.

As we've heard, some insurers are accepting a lost policy declaration, but this usually says you've tried to locate the policy and have been unsuccessful.

sgn_2

Neither hide nor hair of any correspondence to do with assignment. The only document we have about the schedule (besides the apparently worthless Copy) is that from 1988 from the insurer saying they've sent it to the solicitors. I even found the Original Mortgage Schedule for our current house, which got me going for a minute, till I remembered we needed the one for the previous property - duh!

So am waiting for the solicitors to ring us back today! Do they have it? Will I be crying into my lunchtime soup and contemplating the run-around to come if they haven't? :eek:

kingstreet

You would probably find the notice reassigning the policy to you is wrapped around the original policy, when it surfaces.

The problem you may have is if the policy is still assigned to a lender, the lost policy form will not get you the payout, without whichever lender confirming to the insurer that the policy should be reassigned to the policyholder.

This happens a lot, with lenders being somewhat dilatory in discharging their duties when mortgages are repaid.

sgn_2

All roads may lead back to Santander, as inheriters of National & Provincial then Abbey! Still waiting for the solicitors though ...

kingstreet

I would ask the insurer if the policy is still subject to a lender assignment. If it is, ask which lender as you need to start working on it right away.

The lender will need to release the assignment in writing and that will have to be transmitted to the insurer.

sgn_2

Solicitor does not have it Was advised to check that the insurer had received a letter of Safe Receipt, which I thought might be good for passing some grief back where it came from

In pursuit of proof the insurers had proof they had sent the Original to the Solicitor I rang the insurers. The person I spoke to quickly pointed out that: with some policies they would absolutely require the Original, BUT ... with ours, the Copy would be acceptable :T

Unfortunately, I was so happy I forgot to ask which policies would require the original. All I can say is that the amount of money involved, though very important to us, is pretty small in the scheme of things

btw, Santander, had only recently (as in 19th Nov) contacted them to say they had discharged us. Presumably they at least had some paperwork to indicate it wasn't quite all over. When we were trying to get their name off the Land Registry they didn't point that out (though their name did get taken off!).

In all, though, the insurers caused a lot of worry. The customer service person said we'd been sent a general letter, so that some bits didn't apply to us. Which means, I think, when you get that letter saying they want all the documentation, it might be worth giving them a call to check before trying to fufill the request.

But it's not over till it's over, or in this case, the money hits the bank account. It's supposed to do this just before Christmas, ironically! :snow_grin