How can this be right?

slr89

Thanks again everyone for your replies.

I've tried negotiating with the PWC and she's made it clear she wants the maximum that she can get out of me, no matter what that means to me or my family who live with me. My son (QC) is 15 so I have potentially got 4 years to pay as he is due to go to college.

We've spoken to two separate CSA advisers about options. One said that we could not open a case ourselves under existing rules. The other said that the case can be opened under old rules but that the PWC would obviously be informed and would be able to close it straight away.

Does anybody know of anywhere I can find out a definitive answer about re-opening the case?

FBaby

I've tried negotiating with the PWC and she's made it clear she wants the maximum that she can get out of me, no matter what that means to me or my family who live with me.

But isn't it the natural thing to do to think about your own family before that of your ex? It isn't that different to you saying that you gave her what you could when you could afford it, regardless of the impact this had on her own finances.

HoneyNutLoop

slr89 wrote: »

Does anybody know of anywhere I can find out a definitive answer about re-opening the case?

Copied and pasted from the transitional provision regulations:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/3186/regulation/28/made

Linking provisions
28. (1) Where, after the commencement date but before the conversion date, an application for a maintenance calculation is made or treated as made and within the relevant period a maintenance assessment was in force in relation to the same qualifying child, non-resident parent and person with care—
(a)the application shall be treated as an application for a maintenance assessment; and
(b)any maintenance assessment made in response to the application shall be an assessment to which regulations 9 to 28 apply.
(2) Where, after the conversion date, an application for a maintenance calculation is made or treated as made, and within the relevant period a maintenance assessment (“the previous assessment”) had been in force in relation to the same qualifying child, non-resident parent and person with care but had ceased to have effect—
(a)the amount of child support maintenance payable by the non-resident parent from the effective date of the maintenance calculation made in response to the application shall be calculated in the same way that a conversion calculation would have been made had the previous assessment been in force on the date the calculation is made; and
(b)the provisions of regulations 9 to 28 shall apply accordingly, including the application where appropriate of transitional amounts, phasing amounts and a transitional period, which for this purpose shall begin on the date which would have been the case conversion date in relation to the previous assessment.
(3) For the purposes of paragraphs (1) and (2) “the relevant period” means 13 weeks prior to the date that the application for the maintenance calculation is made or treated as made.

The bit in bold is the relevant bit. In plain English it means that if a new application is made with the same NRP, PWC and QC's within 13 weeks of a previous maintenance assessment involving the same people, in the same roles ceasing to have effect, the new application shall be processed under the same rules as the last case that was closed.

Will be back tomorrow to the link to the legislation that says only the applicant can withdraw their case, rather than it always being the PWC that can close a case.

Link to Child Support Act 1991:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=wNedUrOoEZCp7Aa4_4GoCw&url=http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/o-0301.pdf&cd=1&ved=0CCwQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGlTeDdnJCcC68dftqBcy-RCAjGcA&sig2=RaCvq19HXg9JZEZBhELRAQ

Page 419:
(2) A maintenance assessment made in response to an application under section 4 or 7 shall be cancelled by [the Secretary of State] if the person on whose application the assessment was made asks him to do so.

Darna

My PWC closed the case, I tried to reopen it before the 13 weeks and was told it would go on to the 2012 scheme as they are no longer taking on applications for CSA1 or CSA2

13 weeks has now passed and PWC has opened a new 2012 case... So I have gone from a NIL assessment to over £400 a mth with effect. NO phasing

HoneyNutLoop

The 13 week linking rule is written within law for the 2012 scheme too. Did you actually submit an application? Or did you not get that far because of the advice you were given?

Law ref. for CS3/2012 scheme: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/3042/article/3/made

Cases to which the new calculation rules apply
3. (1) The types of cases falling within this article, for the purposes of article 2, are those cases satisfying any of paragraphs (2) to (4).
(2) A case satisfies this paragraph where—
(a)an application under section 4 or 7 of the 1991 Act(1) is made to the Secretary of State on or after 10th December 2012;
(b)that application is made in respect of at least four qualifying children with the same person with care and the same non-resident parent; and
(c)subject to paragraph (5), there is no existing case which has both the same person with care and the same non-resident parent referred to in sub-paragraph (b).
(3) A case satisfies this paragraph where it is an existing case and—
(a)the non-resident parent in a case falling within paragraph (2) is also the non-resident parent or absent parent in relation to the existing case; and
(b)the person with care in relation to the existing case is not the person with care in relation to the case falling within paragraph (2).
(4) A case satisfies this paragraph where it is an existing case and—
(a)the non-resident parent or absent parent (“A”) is a partner of a non-resident parent in a case falling within paragraph (2) (“B”); and
(b)A or B is in receipt of a prescribed benefit.
(5) Where—
(a)the applicant in relation to an existing case makes a request to the Secretary of State under section 4(5) or 7(6) of the 1991 Act to cease acting; and
(b)a further application is made under section 4 or 7 of the 1991 Act in relation to the same qualifying child, person with care and non-resident parent on or after 10th December 2012, but before the expiry of 13 weeks from the date of cessation of action by the Secretary of State,
the case is to be treated as an existing case (and so is not a case that satisfies paragraph (2)).

Darna

I didn't try and reopen as I was told on the phone by Hilary at the St Leonard's csa office, that if I tried to re open I would be put on the 2012 scheme.

So there was nothing I could do but wait until the 13 weeks was up and the PWC would reapply.

Just means she ended up closing a case and then reopening one on the new system.

Was I supposed to be phased in do you think? Seems wrong to have gone from NIL to over £400 with effect

HoneyNutLoop

Hi Darna - there is no phasing on 2012 scheme/CSA3 so that bit is correct. But you were given incorrect advice by Hilary of St Leonard's. I have edited my previous post to include a link to the law for 2012 scheme and 13 week linking. As you can see from the bit in bold, your application would not have been treated as a new application but an existing case.

You can complain you were given incorrect advice but as you didn't proceed with your application you don't have any dispute/appeal rights to challenge the overall outcome as no application was made within the 13 week period.

Darna

Thanks for your help. I thought she was telling me wrong at the time but I had no written evidence then.

As I see if I would have been moved over to the new system at some point anyway as they are starting moving over the oldest and I was CSA1 originally. So I've just been moved a few months earlier.



I'm going to write to my MP and CSA complaints though about the wrong advice given by CSA


Edited -just had a thought, I have a link with a new case (PWC has put a claim in for her other ex partner) I think he would have been put on the latest system and because there's a link, we need to both be on the same system, I think that's maybe why I was told I couldn't reopen

slr89

But isn't it the natural thing to do to think about your own family before that of your ex? It isn't that different to you saying that you gave her what you could when you could afford it, regardless of the impact this had on her own finances.

I agree and I wasn't condemning her for what she said. I posted it in response to HoneyNutLoop's query about whether the PWC and I can negotiate an agreement we can both agree to. I should probably have made that clearer, sorry.

@HoneyNutLoop - Thank you for posting the relevant legislation etc.

Marisco

HoneyNutLoop wrote: »

Hi Darna - there is no phasing on 2012 scheme/CSA3 so that bit is correct. But you were given incorrect advice by Hilary of St Leonard's. I have edited my previous post to include a link to the law for 2012 scheme and 13 week linking. As you can see from the bit in bold, your application would not have been treated as a new application but an existing case.

You can complain you were given incorrect advice but as you didn't proceed with your application you don't have any dispute/appeal rights to challenge the overall outcome as no application was made within the 13 week period.

So why is it fair for the PWC to have their CM phased if the NRP is assessed to pay less, but the NRP has to pay full whack from day 1? (I don't know for a fact if this is the case mind, it's just what I've read on here) Going from nil to £400 is just as bad as going from say £500 to £200, so why is one phased and the other isn't?