Why doesn't he want to marry me?

Mojisola

Although most civil partnership ceremonies use a similar structure to a Registry Office wedding, all that is needed for it to be legal is basically this -

Celebrant reads wording to couple -
“I declare that I know of no legal reason why we may not register as each other’s civil partner. I understand that on signing this document we will be forming a civil partnership with each other.”
(name) and (name) would you please sign the partnership schedule.

I think there are hetero couples who would like to have what feels more like an agreement that gives them legal rights and protection than a "ceremony".

redjacket

Speaking as a man, there are a number of reasons I'd potentially be uncomfortable about getting married.

Firstly, I'd just find it an expensive and uncomfortable waste of time. If I was ever going to do it, I'd only want to go to a registry office somewhere and get it over and done with. Spending hours figuring out table centrepieces and inviting a bunch of people who's company I don't particularly enjoy but who would be offended and cause drama if they weren't invited, at a cost of several thousand pounds minimum to myself, I can't see the appeal, personally.

I think for a some men, there are cultural issues, as well. Getting married is one of those "turning 30" moments, where you publicly declare that your youth is over, your dreams won't come to fruition, and the rest of your life is being one of those "dads" from the TV that do nothing except get nagged by their wives and fall off ladders while doing DIY. It's ridiculous, because there's no reason that if you weren't that before that you should be now, but that's one of the big perceptions that you'll get from the media.

The thing about "spreading your seed" is pretty misandristic, but there's certainly an extent again for some men where even if I was with somebody and I knew for a fact that they were perfect for me, there'd still be a part of me that would feel like I'd lost something by signing a piece of paper that says "this is the only person you will ever have sex with again". Again, it's not really a rational response, because you'd never take that as a reason to actually go out and look elsewhere, or even particularly want to, but there's a cultural message that you're losing out.

Of course, the final one is very much a rational reason - if you've read through one of the other threads in this forum, there's a guy who's divorcing his wife, and as a result, she's asking for him to basically pay for her to stay in the marital home and never work for the remainder of her life, and she has a solicitor that's telling her that this is a reasonable thing to do. While I'd hope that I'd never want to marry somebody who'd be tempted to do something like that, it shouldn't necessarily be a great surprise that men don't want to get married if it ends up with them being expected to live out of their cars if it goes bad at any point. You have to start to question what's in it for him.

To be honest, it may be all or none of those. The OP is only going to find out if she's willing to actually sit down and have a non-argumentative conversation with him about it. At the moment, it does just seem like you're both trying to out-stubborn each other until one of you gives in. Would you really want him to marry you just because he felt he didn't have a choice?

notanewuser

marisco wrote: »

Only a complete fool would have two kids and buy a property with someone who they did not consider to be their ideal woman. The decision to have children is a far bigger commitment to a partner than marrying them is.

They didn't decide to have child #1 though.

lostinrates

Its goog to have some honest male opinion, thank you,

redjacket wrote: »

Speaking as a man, there are a number of reasons I'd potentially be uncomfortable about getting married.

Firstly, I'd just find it an expensive and uncomfortable waste of time. If I was ever going to do it, I'd only want to go to a registry office somewhere and get it over and done with. Spending hours figuring out table centrepieces and inviting a bunch of people who's company I don't particularly enjoy but who would be offended and cause drama if they weren't invited, at a cost of several thousand pounds minimum to myself, I can't see the appeal, personally.
["]for different reason this is exactly what my husband and I did, a tiny registers office thing, him me, two witnesses, about a hundred quid, no fuss. [/COLOR]


I think for a some men, there are cultural issues, as well. Getting married is one of those "turning 30" moments, where you publicly declare that your youth is over, your dreams won't come to fruition, and the rest of your life is being one of those "dads" from the TV that do nothing except get nagged by their wives and fall off ladders while doing DIY. It's ridiculous, because there's no reason that if you weren't that before that you should be now, but that's one of the big perceptions that you'll get from the media.
might have been easier for us, we were mid twenties, not thirties, so still felt young. No kids, no great changes, no 'coming of age, just a confirmation of what we felt already and how we were living. We certainly didn't grow up all of a sudden.

The thing about "spreading your seed" is pretty misandristic, but there's certainly an extent again for some men where even if I was with somebody and I knew for a fact that they were perfect for me, there'd still be a part of me that would feel like I'd lost something by signing a piece of paper that says "this is the only person you will ever have sex with again". Again, it's not really a rational response, because you'd never take that as a reason to actually go out and look elsewhere, or even particularly want to, but there's a cultural message that you're losing out.

its an interesting one, because I can see the call, and yet I can also see the appalling realtiy of several different women's claims for child support :rotfl: We both had this out of our system earlier I think. If not we'll have to rethink.

Of course, the final one is very much a rational reason - if you've read through one of the other threads in this forum, there's a guy who's divorcing his wife, and as a result, she's asking for him to basically pay for her to stay in the marital home and never work for the remainder of her life, and she has a solicitor that's telling her that this is a reasonable thing to do. While I'd hope that I'd never want to marry somebody who'd be tempted to do something like that, it shouldn't necessarily be a great surprise that men don't want to get married if it ends up with them being expected to live out of their cars if it goes bad at any point. You have to start to question what's in it for him.
we talked finances before. In our circumstances our outlook was slightly different but we did discuss end of marriage plans and while they might not stand we made some and confirmed them later. I think its a conversation everyone should have, not as part of prenup necessarily but as part of relationship discussing if outlook and ideas of commitment are similar.
To be honest, it may be all or none of those. The OP is only going to find out if she's willing to actually sit down and have a non-argumentative conversation with him about it. At the moment, it does just seem like you're both trying to out-stubborn each other until one of you gives in. Would you really want him to marry you just because he felt he didn't have a choice?

Spun a round, would you really want someone to stay with you unhappily unwed feeling insecure because they felt they didn't have a choice while potentially losing small benefits of being married?

poet123

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

My mother's been a housewife most of her married life - she worked for 6 years as a teacher full-time (4 before marriage) and 5 years part-time, once all her children were older.

She's very well educated, has a degree from Cambridge, a PGCE, and a master's in musical theory, too.

Not one lesson was a waste, it contributes to the wonderful, well-educated person she is and we love.

What a lovely tribute to her, please show her this thread I am sure she would be thrilled to see that in black and white.

Mojisola wrote: »

I don't think that matters.

I don't want to live in a country where people are expected to behave in just one way. People are different and it's wonderful that there are lots of options open to us.

I don't want a woman to be told that she shouldn't start a family while young and stay at home to bring them up while her partner goes out to work any more than I want to be told that that's the only way for a woman to live.

Nor me, but the point was that thread sought to isolate women as in one camp or the other. And the premise was that those who saw themselves in the wife/mother camp should not be taking up places in FE/HE as it was a waste of resources.

The reality, and probably the ideal for most women, is that they sit in both camps at different stages of their lives. I think education is valuable at whatever stage of life you undertake it. My years at home with my kids (and my elderly parents) were spent furthering my formal education so that when the next stage of life hoved into view I could move on.

poet123

notanewuser wrote: »

I have 3 brothers in law. 1 is married because his wife issued an ultimatum after 10+ years together.

1 has 2 children and a mortgage with a woman that would love to get married, but it isn't likely to happen without serious coercion. The kids have his name. He doesn't need her to.

The other has a child with his now ex-girlfriend. They would never have married, baby was a "surprise" and now 5 months on its all a big mess with baby firmly stuck in the middle. Having had his fingers burnt it would take a miracle for him to want to marry anybody.

So, using your method, 2/3 trumps 3/5.

None of the men I know who are married had to be co-erced.

Really, it is an anathema to me that you would have to do that. Why bother? You cajole and co erce a child into a routine which includes cleaning their teeth or having a shower or eating their greens. I would not be cajoling any man who wasn't champing at the bit to get married. What is the point?

That said, I wouldn't have had his children either.....or bought a house.

lostinrates

Re the education thing, (formal and otherwise) actually believe it directly contributes to my contribution to our situation. My interesting (though now admittedly rathe rdated) research gives me something of my own to talk about when people ask ' but what does one of those DO? My interest in literature continues this, particularly socially where DH falls short from having no time, I read and short list what would actually interest them and can provide a potted synopsis of the rest. Ifi were a mother these skills would hopefully be firing the imagination of youngsters and be doing more thin just making me 'me'. I think NDG's mother was probably somewhat part of NDG being NDG too, thus the education has been valuable twice over (or more, NDG is not an 'only'!)

O,goodness, autocorrect wen mad! Lots of editing to do! Changing youngsters to 'you haters is really taking the biscuit!

Mojisola

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

My mother's been a housewife most of her married life - she worked for 6 years as a teacher full-time (4 before marriage) and 5 years part-time, once all her children were older.

She's very well educated, has a degree from Cambridge, a PGCE, and a master's in musical theory, too.

Not one lesson was a waste, it contributes to the wonderful, well-educated person she is and we love.

When I worked in Africa, this was often quoted "Educate a man and you educate an individual; educate a woman and you educate a family."

thorsoak

Person_one wrote: »

While I agree with you for the most part, this idea has definitely not gone away! Watch a few romantic comedies for examples of how women are still buying into the idea of 'catching a man' being an achievement, and every woman's ultimate goal.

Every woman's ultimate goal - or every man's idea of every woman's ultimate goal? Financers, producers and directors of these rom coms are, in the main, male!

redjacket

lostinrates wrote: »

Its goog to have some honest male opinion, thank you,

Spun a round, would you really want someone to stay with you unhappily unwed feeling insecure because they felt they didn't have a choice while potentially losing small benefits of being married?

Like I say, I'd hope that we'd actually sit together and be honest with each other and assuage each other's worries, as you obviously did with your partner.

I meant it more in the sense that I don't think the OP just wants him to huffily go through with it as if he'd just agreed to take out the bins during his favourite programme to avoid an argument. If they're going to get married, it should be because it's something they want to do together, not as an "or else".