advice needed re P45 please

cazpumpkin

One of my kids started their first job , but after a week got told it wasn't working out and invited to leave , not fired, they said we will do a great reference etc and pay you, so no problem. it was agreed that they would say in the reference he was only there for a week as a placement not as a long term job thing

It was just on a trial period , although my kid was shocked because they thought theyd done a great job that week.

The bosses said he had done a good job too but that they didn't think he was cut out for this aggressive sales job.

Anyhoo

a week later he went for an interview and got offered another job.

When asked about the previous job he didn't say they asked me to leave, he said it was just a work experience situation

He got offered the new job, provided references etc.

but he is worried because he has been asked for a P45

if he asks the previous company for a P45 it shows they paid him 3 weeks money (one week wages and one week lieu wages and one weeks severance , total 3 weeks money for one weeks work, blindingly obvious he was laid off)

or does he tell them he has never had a p45 and get one from the government and I think it would just show the 3 weeks money as gross money to date without any details of when earned or who by?

that way he could say it was money from the work placement plus previous barwork from earlier in the year


basically he thinks he is stuffed and will lose the second job

my question is simply what is the least incriminating way of him getting a p45 with minimal info provided to the new employers

ps I don't blame him for trying to cover up he was laid off because there aren't many jobs around near us, he is inexperienced at age 18 of job interviews and basically tried to present himself in a good light, he wishes he had never gone along for the first job because it was almost as bad as being fired, it tells people he wa laid off and is therefore useless , he found it embarrassing and depressing.


But worse of all he lied and didn't say I was laid off, which was a mistake, but he didn't have the courage
many thanks

AP007

No need to tell the new job he has had one before for 3 weeks although he could have still been paid for work experience. A P45 from them will say who they were and his leaving date etc. He can send this direct is he wants to the new employers tax office if he gets the address from them or get him to fill in a P46 which is now called a The Starter Checklist instead and just wait for the HMRC to notify the new job of tax particulars.

agrinnall

A P45 from the first employer will say what it says, there is no leeway on what can be stated on it. Before he started that job was he receiving JSA, and if so did he get a P45 from the Jobcentre when he came off JSA and did he give that to the employer? If he didn't hand over that P45 then perhaps he could just give that to the new employer. Otherwise I'd go with the New Starter Checklist option, and hope that nobody ever finds out that he lied in the interview.

anamenottaken

cazpumpkin wrote: »

. . .
but he is worried because he has been asked for a P45

if he asks the previous company for a P45 it shows they paid him 3 weeks money (one week wages and one week lieu wages and one weeks severance , total 3 weeks money for one weeks work, blindingly obvious he was laid off)

or does he tell them he has never had a p45 and get one from the government and I think it would just show the 3 weeks money as gross money to date without any details of when earned or who by?

. . .

From what you write, he has not yet received a P45 from the previous employer, so can say he doesn't have one and can simply confirm that though he had previous paid employment in the current tax year the new job is now his only one.

May I say that his former employer is being extremely generous if they are effectively paying three weeks' pay for one week's work. Unless he had written particulars giving longer notice from Day 1 he would have been entitled to not even a day's notice and certainly no severance pay.

cazpumpkin

Hi anamenottaken, yes they were extremely generous, but it was also extremely strange. He started on the Monday, they kept telling him he was the best thing since sliced bread right up until the Thursday night, then wham Friday morning he was told they would have to let him go, all of us were shocked. The only thing I can think of because he cant think of a single thing he did wrong, was the person he was hired to replace was still sitting there on the Monday morning, we wondered if they had changed there minds but we have no idea. Yes he was also given a contract on his first morning which outlined a weeks notice either way, but we have no idea why he was paid for 3 its all very odd

Thank you also to the other 2 posters, I will get him to do the starter P45 thing, thanks so much everyone , Im not impressed with his fabrications but I can see why he said it. Daft lump

cazpumpkin

Also he wasn't on JSA he had just left university. I will get him to do the starter checklist thing otherwise having looked online at parts 1,2, and 3 of the P45, it wants to know & shows from the previous employer total pay to date in that employment and it is going to look very obvious he was paid 3 weeks money for one weeks work. thanks everyone

chrisbur

cazpumpkin wrote: »

Also he wasn't on JSA he had just left university. I will get him to do the starter checklist thing otherwise having looked online at parts 1,2, and 3 of the P45, it wants to know & shows from the previous employer total pay to date in that employment and it is going to look very obvious he was paid 3 weeks money for one weeks work. thanks everyone

Just to clarify regarding the P45. There are four parts to a P45 they are 1, 1A, 2 and 3. The parts you are looking at which show pay to date in that employment are part 1 and part 1A. Part 1 is sent to the HMRC by the old employer and part 1A is kept by the employee, only parts 2 and 3 should be given to the new employer and on these there is only one section for pay and tax section 7. This will either show pay and tax for the full tax year and would include all employments and taxable benefit received since 6 April or would be blank.
These are the details that will eventually be sent to the new employer so whether the P45 is handed in or not the new employer will get to know the details eventually unless the tax office is contacted and requested not to send these details. This may result in being overtaxed for the year and getting a rebate after the tax year end.
Of course the details may be just passed to the payroll dept. and no-one will even look at them with regard to checking your son's story, who knows? The only way to be as sure as possible that they are not seen is to request HMRC not to pass on the figures. What to do is shown on part 2 of the P45
"Going to a new job
Give Parts 2 and 3 of this form to your new employer,
or you will have tax deducted using the emergency
code and may pay too much tax. If you do not want
your new employer to know the details on this form,
send it to your HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) office
immediately with a letter saying so and giving the
name and address of your new employer. HMRC can
make special arrangements, but you may pay too
much tax for a while as a result of this."

cazpumpkin

thank you so much Chrisbur,


I think everything will be okay because from april to july at university he was working in a restaurant , then he came home and did the weeks work. so adding the two together when he hands in his p45 it will only show the total for the year to date , from april to now. both sums combined. so tbh I don't think they will bat an eyelid and its his guilty conscience worrying, I have tried to reassure him that there is no point in spoiling his chances and to not say anything, I know its technically underhand but its more important I think that he gets a job in the current economic financial global meltdown.

chrisbur

cazpumpkin wrote: »

thank you so much Chrisbur,


I think everything will be okay because from april to july at university he was working in a restaurant , then he came home and did the weeks work. so adding the two together when he hands in his p45 it will only show the total for the year to date , from april to now. both sums combined. so tbh I don't think they will bat an eyelid and its his guilty conscience worrying, I have tried to reassure him that there is no point in spoiling his chances and to not say anything, I know its technically underhand but its more important I think that he gets a job in the current economic financial global meltdown.

On these details I would not be surprised if the P45 was for the emergency tax code anyway and had no earnings figures on parts 2 and 3 anyway.