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How is it possible to guarantee you will not be off work due to sickness?
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Whether she can genuinely keep going or not is not the issue. It's not about that. It's about whether she is fit enough to work for her employer. If she's not fit to their standard she will be terminated, but it isn't misconduct - she is not suited to the job.
And frankly, if she is sickly with a low immune system - as her mother the very very last place I would want her to work is where she will come into contact with sick people. It's madness, absolute madness.
Actually she is working in the OFFICE of an outpatients department and the patients that come in are generally people coming for appointments regarding broken limbs, cancer etc. - ie not illnesses you can catch. I return to my original question - how can she guarantee she will not be off sick? Maybe live in a sterile room for the rest of her life?!!!!1 -
She has not been told to guarantee she will not be sick. She has been told that if she has more time off over a defined period, her job is at risk. People are told that all the time.Actually she is working in the OFFICE of an outpatients department and the patients that come in are generally people coming for appointments regarding broken limbs, cancer etc. - ie not illnesses you can catch. I return to my original question - how can she guarantee she will not be off sick? Maybe live in a sterile room for the rest of her life?!!!!0 -
Actually she is working in the OFFICE of an outpatients department and the patients that come in are generally people coming for appointments regarding broken limbs, cancer etc. - ie not illnesses you can catch. I return to my original question - how can she guarantee she will not be off sick? Maybe live in a sterile room for the rest of her life?!!!!
Unfortunately she cannot guarantee that she will not be off sick. She needs to decide. Does she stick it out and see if it's really a suitable job for her, or does she start looking for other employment. That's really down to the nuts and bolts of your question.0 -
Actually she is working in the OFFICE of an outpatients department and the patients that come in are generally people coming for appointments regarding broken limbs, cancer etc. - ie not illnesses you can catch. I return to my original question - how can she guarantee she will not be off sick? Maybe live in a sterile room for the rest of her life?!!!!
There isn't a huge point in getting snippy when it was you not other posters who first suggested that it was her working environment which was a major contributory factor to her sickness record!it has left her with a low immune system and she picks up bugs very easily, despite eating a healthy diet and taking all sensible precautions to avoid coming into contact with anyone who is illl. However, as she works in an Outpatients Dept, this isnt easy!
You aren't really helping your daughter here with your stance and way of looking at things. The simple fact is, as you have been told again and again, that this is not a misconduct issue but a capability one. Your daughter's sickness record is not just a little but well over the norm, and if this is going to be an ongoing problem, then she is not capable of doing the job she has been employed for and will be dismissed on capability grounds.
If you really want to help your daughter, I think you have to accept the fact that due to her poor health, this job is not the right one for her, and together you could perhaps look at what she is physically capable of doing and how she can secure that kind of job. This may mean working part time rather than full time so she has recovery days in the week, or taking on short term contract roles (via a temp agency if she is in an admin role) or becoming self employed. As unpalatable as it obviously is to you, there are very very few salaried jobs which can accommodate sickness levels of this nature, so traditional full time office based jobs would be a mistake if her health is so precarious.0 -
If you really want to help your daughter, I think you have to accept the fact that due to her poor health, this job is not the right one for her, and together you could perhaps look at what she is physically capable of doing and how she can secure that kind of job. This may mean working part time rather than full time so she has recovery days in the week, or taking on short term contract roles (via a temp agency if she is in an admin role) or becoming self employed. As unpalatable as it obviously is to you, there are very very few salaried jobs which can accommodate sickness levels of this nature, so traditional full time office based jobs would be a mistake if her health is so precarious.
I do think this is very good advice. Whilst I do not subscribe to the extremes that some people have on this thread there is a balance to be struck. It seems that your daughters position in terms of her health, and her employers position in terms of attendance, cannot achieve that balance. Neither your daughter nor the employer are responsible for that predicament. It is simply the fact of the matter. There is no point in tilting at windmills. Any employer who has absolutely no tolerance of sickness is going to find it difficult to retain staff, but equally, all employers will expect sickness to be an occasional occurrence. Nobody can be expected to never be sick, but it isn't unreasonable for an employer to say that they can't accept further sickness when one already has a poor attendance record. And especially not with a relatively new employee who may be setting up a pattern of poor attendance.
Really, where she works, and who she works for isn't relevant - most employers will apply such rules, one way or another. So if she isn't able to maintain a good level of health and attendance working full time, perhaps she has to reconsider her options. A good place to start might be with her existing employer - they may be willing and able, if in full possession of her health history, to make some adjustments such as part-time working. It may not even need to be for ever. Maybe several months, or even a few years, down the line, she may have built up her immune system again and be better able to deal with the rigours of a full time job. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Unless you decide to tilt at windmills, in which case it may likely end up as nothing!0 -
Actually she is working in the OFFICE of an outpatients department and the patients that come in are generally people coming for appointments regarding broken limbs, cancer etc. - ie not illnesses you can catch. I return to my original question - how can she guarantee she will not be off sick? Maybe live in a sterile room for the rest of her life?!!!!
Personally, I still don't think a hospital is the right place for someone with a compromised immune system to work. Anywhere where you meet a large volume of different people is not helpful, people are full of germs, and colds, and tummy upsets and other ills. Working with outpatients who have cancer - so also compromised immune systems - still doesn't have the ring of 'Good idea!'
How can she guarantee she won't be off sick? She can't. But the employer can't tolerate it, so at the bottom line if she keeps being off sick she'll have no job. End of story.
Don't bother saying 'it's not fair' - life isn't fair and you are old enough to know that.1 -
Personally, I still don't think a hospital is the right place for someone with a compromised immune system to work. Anywhere where you meet a large volume of different people is not helpful, people are full of germs, and colds, and tummy upsets and other ills. Working with outpatients who have cancer - so also compromised immune systems - still doesn't have the ring of 'Good idea!'
How can she guarantee she won't be off sick? She can't. But the employer can't tolerate it, so at the bottom line if she keeps being off sick she'll have no job. End of story.
Don't bother saying 'it's not fair' - life isn't fair and you are old enough to know that.
When did I say "its not fair" and whats more - how on earth do you know how old I am!!!0 -
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What Richard said LOL!0
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gettingready wrote: »I know what you say but to me this seems like she still has ME - if this is the case... perhaps Equality Act could apply?
Perhaps this may help?
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.actionforme.org.uk%2FResources%2FAction%2520for%2520ME%2FDocuments%2Fget-informed%2FM.E.%2520in%2520the%2520workplace%2520employers%2520leaflet%25202.pdf&ei=84tzUvrJMoHU0QXQn4CoDg&usg=AFQjCNEnkAmMDiNxub5zQFVag33immJLfQ&sig2=qS2NdgOtsNAkoh0Pgwoy-g
OP, did you look at the link I posted? Did you contact them to discuss/get advice?0
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