Has Our Benefits Culture Eradicated Hunger (to learn)

MacMickster

A really thought provoking article was published yesterday by Robert Peston.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24442248

I am amazed that it has not already been the subject of a thread on this board, but it seems that we are back to a spell of pantomime threads about house prices at the expense of all other topics.

The article comments on the results of an OECD survey of the skills of 166,000 adults in 24 rich countries. The whole article deserves to be read, but is much too long to reproduce here, however this particular extract gives a flavour

vivatifosi

MacMickster wrote: »

I am amazed that it has not already been the subject of a thread on this board, but it seems that we are back to a spell of pantomime threads about house prices at the expense of all other topics.

Rinoa started a thread on this a day or so back, but the title wouldn't necessarily have made it obvious:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4786906

lemonjelly

How exactly is this a result of our benefits culture?

Kennyboy66

lemonjelly wrote: »

How exactly is this a result of our benefits culture?

That cohort will have been at primary school during 1997 - 2010 (Labour) when there was a huge investment in education particularly in the emphasis on literacy & numeracy for under 11's.

Profoundly depressing and lets be brutally honest, its a real problem that some sections of society don't value education, don't have books in their house, send their kids to school at 5 who can barely use a knife and fork or dress themselves.

I know plenty of teachers and heads, and according to them its getting worse.

Generali

Kennyboy66 wrote: »

lets be brutally honest, its a real problem that some sections of society don't value education

This is the problem really. When I went to school my parents made it very clear that it was very important for me to attend and to do as well as I could.

I went to school with some pretty nasty injuries, when I was sick and in all sorts of weather (walking/cycling a mile or more each way). The first day I had off for a holiday or any non-sickness was when I was 15. My parents helped me learn to read and do maths, my Dad helped me with my physics until I was 18 despite learning stuff that had barely been discovered when he was at school. It was made very clear to me that getting a good education was important and worth a huge amount of sacrifice.

Similarly, some children are constantly given the opposite message: don't bother, you're wasting your time, they don't want people like us. Taking the day off because Mum can't be Aris'ed to go in the rain or because holidays are cheaper when school's in then the message will get through very quickly.

Britain spends a ton of money on education but if kids don't want to learn you can't force them. It's not the fault of Labour or the Tories, it's the fault of people who hold those attitudes.

The welfare state has meant that the cost of failing at school is low and that is probably a part of the problem. Likely as not a fairly small part as the problem existed long before the welfare state. A part of my family lore is that my Mum and siblings were raised by a sickly, single mother. They stayed at school until 18 and then went on to further/higher education. The neighbours thought Grandma was barking mad.

Grandma was born in a Workhouse. My youngest was born in a sort of private hospital at vast expense.

Conrad

I did a post on The Guardian arguing an endemic welfare culture causes some kids from a young age not to bother with self responsibility or improvement as they know full well the national welfare teat is generous to those they know that likewise took no interest in the world of education and work, indeed they are rewarded for these specific behaviours and choices with a property and other benefits.

Welfare is toxic for many young lives.

Conrad

Generali wrote: »

It's not the fault of Labour or the Tories, it's the fault of people who hold those attitudes.

The welfare state has meant that the cost of failing at school is low and that is probably a part of the problem.

I'd go one further and argue the welfare state is a very specific reward mechanism for all the wrong behaviours.

Now the retort I usually get to this goes "you try livin on JSA, no one choses to", but as ever with those seemingly unwilling to dare face up to the reality of the Human condition, this is a very quaint and naive myth. In reality we find most welfare tenants are adept at extracting all manner of freebies and handouts, JSA is just step 1.

How do I know this? Day in, day out dealing with tenants on welfare - sure it's anecdotal, but then so is the vast experience a tracker bushman builds by being immersed in the world of animal tracking, do we dismiss his every day experience so loftily?

ash28

Generali wrote: »

This is the problem really. When I went to school my parents made it very clear that it was very important for me to attend and to do as well as I could.

I went to school with some pretty nasty injuries, when I was sick and in all sorts of weather (walking/cycling a mile or more each way). The first day I had off for a holiday or any non-sickness was when I was 15. My parents helped me learn to read and do maths, my Dad helped me with my physics until I was 18 despite learning stuff that had barely been discovered when he was at school. It was made very clear to me that getting a good education was important and worth a huge amount of sacrifice.

Similarly, some children are constantly given the opposite message: don't bother, you're wasting your time, they don't want people like us. Taking the day off because Mum can't be Aris'ed to go in the rain or because holidays are cheaper when school's in then the message will get through very quickly.

Britain spends a ton of money on education but if kids don't want to learn you can't force them. It's not the fault of Labour or the Tories, it's the fault of people who hold those attitudes.

The welfare state has meant that the cost of failing at school is low and that is probably a part of the problem. Likely as not a fairly small part as the problem existed long before the welfare state. A part of my family lore is that my Mum and siblings were raised by a sickly, single mother. They stayed at school until 18 and then went on to further/higher education. The neighbours thought Grandma was barking mad.

Grandma was born in a Workhouse. My youngest was born in a sort of private hospital at vast expense.

My parents didn't make it clear that a good education was important and although far from thick I did as little in both the attendance and effort stakes as it was possible to do. My mother was more interested in the extra money coming into the house that an earner would bring in and so had to leave school at the earliest opportunity......I'm not saying "poor me" or anything, that was the way it was at the time.

The driver for me came after school, and that was poverty.....we were poor and my parents were on benefits (father had motor nuerone disease) and really it was a determination not to be as poor as they were......or anything remotely like it.

Fortunately we haven't been poor, though we have had times when I thought we were, when the children were young etc.

I think we brought our kids up to value education....though there were a couple of blips along the way - with our son (couldn't be bothered) and our eldest daughter who wasn't as academically bright as her brother and sister....your kids can't all be bright, as we learned.....but she's done well too and is a, dare I say it, an estate agent.....but she earns pretty good money in the Thames Valley.

Itismehonest

Has Our Benefits Culture Eradicated Hunger (to learn)

Unfortunately, I think it probably has.

Kids in Pakistan & parts of Africa will risk being killed or maimed to get an education & elsewhere will walk many miles to & from school (often in addition to carrying out their fairly onerous daily household chores) all because they believe education is the route to a better life than their current existence. It requires real effort & hunger to learn for many to fulfil their schooling.

Here education is too often looked on as a boring waste of time because not working = getting paid anyway. Children who don't want to be at school misbehave & get rewarded with exclusion. D'uh.

We gradually become a "3rd world country" while those that were 50 years ago will gradually overtake us.

The_White_Horse

i think it is very unfair that none of you are blaming the left wing teachers. the younger ones are terrible. i saw some child write "we kan chrust teechers" or some nonsense and they were praised rather than corrected.

no wonder most of the graduates we get are simpletons.

kabayiri

I'd argue that mass media plays a big role in dumbing down expectations. Outside of family and peer groups, television is a major influence on the young.

So what sort of influence can we expect over the coming months. Here's just a sample :

- X Factor, where we are told that glorified karaoke is your one true route to success. Forget hard work over months if not years, it's these next 2 minutes which will 'make or break'.

- I am Celebrity, Get me out of here / Big Brother -- take your pick. For a few months a bunch of C-listers become our reference point. The focal point is generally how a faded soapstar can revive their career by eating a bunch of Kangaroo private parts.

The overall impression is one of get rich/successful quick. Bypass any extended effort.

Why should we believe that education offers a stronger reference point?