MSE News: Introduce season ticket tax breaks, Boris Johnson says

Porcupine

Peak-hours rail season tickets are already heavily subsidised:

Brighton to London Anytime Day Return £48.10
Brighton to London annual season ticket £4184 = £17.43 per day
(assuming 48 weeks a year, 5 days a week, both tickets available on all operators)

In addition, the train companies have to pay for extra trains that sit in sidings during the middle of the day, just so they can run peak hours extras. So the people who travel irregularly are subsidising those with season tickets. And those in the north, where trains are irregular and (far too) short, are subsidising those in the south east with 12 car trains into Waterloo every few minutes.

So how about:
As previously mentioned, better use of carnets for those who work less than 5 days a week
Monthly season tickets by direct debit
More flexibility by employers to vary start/finish times
A fuzzier difference between 'peak' and 'offpeak' (ie cheaper to travel at 6am or 9am than 7.30am, but even cheaper to travel at 5am or 11am or 2pm when the trains are empty). This doesn't mean an excuse to crank up fares much further, and needs to be comprehensible by users.
Putting the investment into the North and West for those who'd love to commute by train, if there was a train at all

Pincher

One day week, work from home the rest of the time.

People tried it over the years, but the technology wasn't that great. I think a dedicated BT IDA digital connection had two 64kbps channels, and it wasn't cheap. Now we can have a 30Mbps link for reasonable money.

Eurostar means some people can live in Paris or Brussels and commute to London. The main problem is if you want to do two consecutive days, overnight accommodation is expensive.

I propose a redevelopment of Waterloo. There are already loads of people that miss the last train and need overnight accommodation. Create easy to book capsule hotels for about £20 a night. Paper disposable sheets, secure left luggage for valuables.

thelawnet

Porcupine wrote: »

Peak-hours rail season tickets are already heavily subsidised:

Brighton to London Anytime Day Return £48.10
Brighton to London annual season ticket £4184 = £17.43 per day
(assuming 48 weeks a year, 5 days a week, both tickets available on all operators)

That's an utterly absurd comparison.

A Super Off Peak Day Return Brighton to London is £10.

The only people who would buy the Anytime fare are commuters.

And also if you consider that peak-hours trains are full, and the passengers are paying more, it's obvious that the peak hours trains are the ones that pay their way, whereas the leisure traffic is paying below cost.

In addition, the train companies have to pay for extra trains that sit in sidings during the middle of the day, just so they can run peak hours extras. So the people who travel irregularly are subsidising those with season tickets. And those in the north, where trains are irregular and (far too) short, are subsidising those in the south east with 12 car trains into Waterloo every few minutes.

Utter nonsense.

South West Trains (which runs into Waterloo) pays its way, making a small contribution to the treasury of 1.2p per passenger mile.

Likewise Southern and FCC (from Brighton), respectively contributing 0.6p and 3.0p per mile.

Meanwhile, the most heavily subsidised train company is Northern, which operates at a 40.6p per mile subsidy. Second is another operator in the north, Northern, at 16.5p/mile.

The fact is that the London commuter lines are generally self-funding. Most trains up north are not.

London is big, lots of jobs, horrible traffic, and the result is a high demand for trains. The same conditions don't exist elsewhere.

thelawnet

Pincher wrote: »

Eurostar means some people can live in Paris or Brussels and commute to London. The main problem is if you want to do two consecutive days, overnight accommodation is expensive.

I propose a redevelopment of Waterloo. There are already loads of people that miss the last train and need overnight accommodation. Create easy to book capsule hotels for about £20 a night. Paper disposable sheets, secure left luggage for valuables.

Eurostar hasn't left from Waterloo since 2007!

lauramolonlabe

Mr Johnson should spend his time doing a more effective job of running London rather than writing self serving articles for the Daily Telegraph. It is entirely Mr Johnsons "policies" that have caused the meteoric rise in season ticket costs during his time as Mayor. To shift the cost - and significantly a huge administrative burden to a different government department is ridiculous and hugely inefficient, what London needs is lower travel fares for all users immediately- the only person who could and should deliver this is Mr Johnson himself.

Gissafreebe

Unbelievable!!!


I think you miss the point. Season Tickets can be used either for commuting or for pleasure. so this is dual purpose which means that its non tax deductible.

We in the SW have major transport problems... ie my nearest train station is 30 minutes away by road. I fail to see why am I subsidising the South East yet again? SE pople already get SE salaries which takes account of London weighting. Its poor sods like me in the rest of the UK that need the infrastructure so that we can benefit. At one stage we had 3 train stations ... we now have none.

Try the busses? that's a laugh too with poor times of travel.

If those in the SE of England want to cut commuting then MOVE closer to the job.

Nick_C

No one in their right mind would buy a season ticket for leisure journeys. off peak tickets are much cheaper. And who (for example) would travel from Brighton to London every day for pleasure? Try it. It's prematurely aging!

redux

Nick_C wrote: »

No one in their right mind would buy a season ticket for leisure journeys. off peak tickets are much cheaper. And who (for example) would travel from Brighton to London every day for pleasure? Try it. It's prematurely aging!

That isn't true for all routes.

I can see an annual season ticket used 5 days a week is about half the daily cost of an off-peak return

Pincher

thelawnet wrote: »

Eurostar hasn't left from Waterloo since 2007!

Well spotted, although the ambiguity is only because one paragraph followed the other. I have taken Eurostar from Waterloo as well St. Pancras (NOT King's Cross, just in case you tick me off on that one as well) so I do know Waterloo is closed for Eurostar.

There is no reason why you would go back to St Pancras, only to leave it again for work the second day. I suggested Waterloo because I know some office drunks who were forever missing the last train home from Waterloo. If they did get on, they fall asleep and end up in Salisbury. We can tell the next morning because they took the first train into work, wearing yesterday's clothes, having slept on the bench from 3am. There are also more likely sites behind Waterloo, whereas St. Pancras has already had a lot of residential developments.

Rickee

I started working in London this year and despite getting over a £9,000 pay rise, thanks to the loss of housing benefit and the additional cost of travel (£3540pa) I am around £150 per month worse off.

For the cost, the train services are poor so this proposal would be a welcome change.