Middle Class Crisis as Middle Classes Forced into Crisis By Nannies

onlyroz

shop-to-drop wrote: »

A nanny would be far more flexible than childminder or nurserys for those working unsocial hours, irregular shift patterns or long commutes.

True, but you also have to offer nannies things like maternity leave. I know of people who employed a nanny and then ended up having to pay for their nanny's maternity leave while also employing a second nanny to do maternity cover.

However, if it is true that the "going rate" for a nanny is £25k a year then I think it would just about break even with the cost of a nursery or childminder if you have more than one child. For me, I arranged my children so that I would only ever have one at nursery at once (achieved with a 3.5 year age gap) - otherwise it would not have been cost effective for me to go to work.

kabayiri

It's weird isn't it.

An extra £600 is the straw that will break the camel's back.

And yet...some of these middle class people will lose a lot more than this from the recent loss of Child Benefit.

Maybe it is a different type of pound..

Generali

Ok, as I am the Mrs Generali who is having her decisions raked over, I thought I'd give my 2 cents worth.

I used to be a nanny. All I ever wanted to do was be a full time mum, although Mr Generali preferred a working mother as a role model for our kids.

In 2008, if you read back through Generali's posts, you will see that we took a bad hit, and lost everything there was to lose apart from each other. Financially, we were below zero. My parents offered to take us in and that involved allowing my part-retired parents to pay for us to move to Australia and let us live with them.

It then took Generali a year to find a job (including the time in the UK while we waited for visas and the like). Even though Oz offered the kids the best future, i was distraught to leave, but we did. I nannied once Gen lost his job and couldn't even make our rent due to the low rates.

When we got to Oz, I was never going to have another week like the week where I needed to borrow a loaf of bread and some peanut butter from work to feed my kids (that's all any of us ate for 4 days until money from my parents arrived).

I went to university in Oz and got a degree which offered a good graduate career and the chance to never let that happen again.

I am 6 months into my new career and we use a nanny (well actually we use a uni student) as we both work more than 10 hours a day and cannot be home before 6pm when all other forms of childcare start calling the police if you haven't arrived. We try to use an au pair but to save costs we moved to a smaller home and there isn't any space for another person.

So please don't judge me or any other mum/ working parent who might have their own reasons. My kids actually went hungry, actually got genuinely cold the winter of 2008/2009 when we couldn't afford to turn on the heating. I am sacrificing for my kids by being desperately poor and working ridiculous hours for no overtime.

I only work 3 days a week, but in busy season have been required to work 4 (it lasts 4 months and yes, they do pay me an extra day). It's MORE expensive during busy season as I lose around 20 AUD a day going to work. If the overtime isn't hideous and the kids don't get sick. And it's not school holidays.

What I hadn't fully appreciated before all this though, was that I'm not the only one sacrificing for what I would call more than possible future financial security (I'd call it guaranteed future financial security. Especially as I am currently undertaking professional exams as well as working).

Some weeks on Friday I cry in the shower due to exhaustion and guilt and depression. And becuase my kids and husband and parents are also paying the price of our bad luck and bad decisions from before the kids were born.

On the upside, for the first time in the kids' lives, we can afford to buy a house. We have to move to the country and I will have to commute over an hour each way, but the local schools are lovely and it is by the beach and the kids lives will be amazing. And i will get 4 days a week with them and my salary will go up. So this job has cost a lot, but I can give our kids a real home, get them (read: Generali) a dog and some chickens and grow veggies in the garden. And Generali can one day do a job he loves instead of hates, making all of us happier.

Okay, rant over. Sorry if this is too personal or too emotional, but I am not a regular forum contributor and it is quite late here in Oz.

The best of luck to everyone who has to make difficult decisions. There is no one right answer for every family.

Thrugelmir

Generali wrote: »

You may think that's 'posh' or some such and if you do that's great. I moved away from the UK to avoid the Class War so anyone that feels that way is perfectly welcome to stick it up their Aris.

The class war i.e. the haves and have not's aren't UK exclusive.
The pie is only so big.

Oz is hardly a model either. Plenty of deprived people. Not least the original inhabitants.

lostinrates

Generali wrote: »

Okay, rant over. Sorry if this is too personal or too emotional, but I am not a regular forum contributor and it is quite late here in Oz.

The best of luck to everyone who has to make difficult decisions. There is no one right answer for every family.

Not at all mrs gen. Welcome, and perhaps sign up.

Fwiw, though its too late now, some of us think very highly of Gen, and by extension from what we have heard, of you. Had we known how bad things were at the end we would have liked to help. I know its cold comfort when its too late, but I want you to know people would have helped had we only known.

Generali

Mrs Gen:
Thanks LIR - I know Gen thinks of you as a real friend.

Things were very bad for us, but we were lucky enough to have family who helped us out. Although it felt as though we were less than a week from living in a B&B (although we were told that wasn't possible as we were 'adequately housed' and needed to stay where we were, even though we couldn't afford the rent!!), I am sure we would have managed anyway - we're a tenacious family

I can't sign up - I'd never get any work done on my exams and they are the key to our future and our kids' future. Otherwise we'll have to pick our favourite, and that one can go to uni.

It is heartwarming to think that there are people who have their own difficulties would be willing to help out a failed investment banker and SAHM/nanny when we can't afford our organic milk anymore. I can tell you from first hand experience, even though I felt guilty not giving my kids the best (we had got used to it), I had no problem giving up all costs possible.
I haven't had more than 1 haircut a year since 2008. I don't go to the movies, we don't go out, we don't eat red meat more than once or twice a week (its a lot cheaper over here but still...) and almost no seafood which is expensive.
Yes we pay for a nanny, but the sacrifices have been sweeping and long lasting in order to afford that. My annual budget for all non essentials, including clothing for all of us (including 2 professional wardrobes, school uniforms etc) is under $300 (150GBP). Christmas and birthdays, also far less than you would imagine, 3 digits certainly.

I simply wanted to point out what I thought, as Gen has a habit of putting words into my mouth (TBH the private secondary school thing is more of a payoff for me for having to work - not a driving factor) and occassionally I feel that they are so different to what I actually think that I don't want him taking my vote. On the subject of childcare, working mums etc, we have different opinions (although not drastically) and I am somewhat of an expert, if i do say so myself.

Nice to get a post addressed to me:)

FWIW, The original question about WHY I'd pay to go to work is a completely valid question and the main purpose of my answers. The assumptions which subesquently came are what drove me to actually bother to post - we're not all moaning about an extra $600 a year whilst buying a new pair of winter boots every season.

As an ex-nanny, most of my employers chose nannies due to work commitments, not poshness. And even the fulltime working, 60-70 hour a week mums had a huge impact on their children and were clearly the primary influence in their lives. I might have had more success getting the kids to eat their greens, but they all loved their kids and cherished the time spent with them even more due to its preciousness. I never worked for a mum who wasn't willing to sit on the floor and read a book to their kid at the end of the day whilst I filled them in on the comings and goings.

lostinrates

Generali wrote: »

Mrs Gen:
Thanks LIR - I know Gen thinks of you as a real friend.

Things were very bad for us, but we were lucky enough to have family who helped us out. Although it felt as though we were less than a week from living in a B&B (although we were told that wasn't possible as we were 'adequately housed' and needed to stay where we were, even though we couldn't afford the rent!!), I am sure we would have managed anyway - we're a tenacious family

I can't sign up - I'd never get any work done on my exams and they are the key to our future and our kids' future. Otherwise we'll have to pick our favourite, and that one can go to uni.

It is heartwarming to think that there are people who have their own difficulties would be willing to help out a failed investment banker and SAHM/nanny when we can't afford our organic milk anymore. I can tell you from first hand experience, even though I felt guilty not giving my kids the best (we had got used to it), I had no problem giving up all costs possible.
I haven't had more than 1 haircut a year since 2008. I don't go to the movies, we don't go out, we don't eat red meat more than once or twice a week (its a lot cheaper over here but still...) and almost no seafood which is expensive.
Yes we pay for a nanny, but the sacrifices have been sweeping and long lasting in order to afford that. My annual budget for all non essentials, including clothing for all of us (including 2 professional wardrobes, school uniforms etc) is under $300 (150GBP). Christmas and birthdays, also far less than you would imagine, 3 digits certainly.

I simply wanted to point out what I thought, as Gen has a habit of putting words into my mouth (TBH the private secondary school thing is more of a payoff for me for having to work - not a driving factor) and occassionally I feel that they are so different to what I actually think that I don't want him taking my vote. On the subject of childcare, working mums etc, we have different opinions (although not drastically) and I am somewhat of an expert, if i do say so myself.

Nice to get a post addressed to me:)

FWIW, The original question about WHY I'd pay to go to work is a completely valid question and the main purpose of my answers. The assumptions which subesquently came are what drove me to actually bother to post - we're not all moaning about an extra $600 a year whilst buying a new pair of winter boots every season.

As an ex-nanny, most of my employers chose nannies due to work commitments, not poshness. And even the fulltime working, 60-70 hour a week mums had a huge impact on their children and were clearly the primary influence in their lives. I might have had more success getting the kids to eat their greens, but they all loved their kids and cherished the time spent with them even more due to its preciousness. I never worked for a mum who wasn't willing to sit on the floor and read a book to their kid at the end of the day whilst I filled them in on the comings and goings.

:kisses3:


And I him. He's a good egg. Even if he doesn't like my answers to his silly interview questions :rotfl:;).

Mrs gen. You and Gen don't have to justify your choices to anyone but each other. .

Nice to know you read sometimes though.


L

wotsthat

Generali wrote: »

FWIW, The original question about WHY I'd pay to go to work is a completely valid question and the main purpose of my answers.

It's obvious really. My wife effectively worked for free for about three years I suppose once work expenses and childcare were taken into account.

There will be some people who genuinely feel that it's better for a woman to be a SAHM but, for most that don't 'get it', thinking about the best long-term outcome for their family doesn't extend much further than whether to cook fish fingers or chicken nuggets for tea.

John_Pierpoint

RichardD1970 wrote: »

Why?

Why not stay at home with the kids and save $10,000 a year, win win situation, more money, more time with kids.

Or am I missing something?

Simple really, the Government (ie the rest of us) would have another unemployed female at the job centre, a burden on the public purse, not a contributor to the massive deficit and its burden of interest payments.

Generali wrote: »

I'm not sure why you see these things as mutually exclusive.

I would like my children to have as good an education as possible as I believe my primary responsibilities to my kids are to send them into the world well educated, well mannered and able to look after themselves.

The first part will mean sending them to a fee paying school. As I don't have a trust fund that will mean both of us working in order to afford it. That means we both need to build a career so we are earning enough to maintain the payment of school fees.

.

I think the Asians have the right idea, send the kids to the local state school and then buy them extra tuition in the evenings.
My kids have proved that going to the local school makes them realise that the only way is upwards.and they can deal with folks from all strata of society.

Prudent

It is lovely to hear from you Mrs Gen I am not very good at picking out bits of posts to quote, but could so relate to your comment about crying with guilt in the shower. I had a very messy situation (really dark and awful stuff) with my then husband in 2002. I was had to leave the house for my safety and was in insecure and casual work. The council offered me accomodation that was too dangerous for my 10 year old daughter and it became sink or swim time. I got a mortgage from Northern Rock when they were handing them out like sweets. I was so worried about not being able to pay it that we lived below benefit levels while I obsessively put away money. I also worked long hours.Through her teenage years my daughter was in a bad place (possibly because of what went on with her dad) and I felt so guilty at not being there more. It wasn't until she became an adult that I realised my guilt was very misplaced. I was at an event where my daughter was talking about changing from being totally off the rails to where she is now. She spoke about what a powerful influence I had been and how she knew that whatever happened I was always there for her. I cried in a different way then.
I was always deeply exhausted for years and in the midst of the grind I failed to see how much I did actually put in. You will be giving your children much more than you imagine.