Biggest Threats to Cyclists?

hugheskevi

What is the experience of the regular cyclists on here who drive? When you drive do you find cyclists dangerous and unpredictable?

Personally in 5 years of driving round London I have never come into conflict with a cyclist in any way. I do wonder how much the opinions expressed are simply a lack of understanding of the perspectives of other road users.

When driving, I find cyclists' behaviour predictable, and none have ever managed to sneak into my 'blindspot' as (a) I shoulder-check before making any turn (a habit ingrained from motorcycling days), and (b) to get out of sight of my mirrors I either have to have overtaken the cyclist, or else I am moving slowly in traffic with plenty of time to see them as they approach. Either way, I know they are there, they don't just appear.

Overtaking cyclists is easy - most of the time it isn't necessary as they are faster, and if traffic is light then overtaking is simple. The most I have ever been 'held-up' by is perhaps 20 seconds or so.

I do see several cyclists out without lights after dark (more often than not in dark clothing), usually in autumn when the weather is still good but days are getting shorter. But they tend to be kids riding on the pavement, and none have ever caused me any issue as a driver.

Even when cycling I've only come across a couple of outright idiots on a bike over the years, most notably a guy deciding to ride the wrong way along Vauxhall Bridge in the bus lane who I came within centimetres of hitting as I was at the end of a line of cyclists who each swerved out, with each one progressively closer to collision :mad:. But that is very much the exception to everyday riding, which despite sometimes having as many as about 30 cyclists setting off from lights in rush-hour is almost always uneventful.

Stoke

I always have the same response to this. I've seen both sides. I've seen some seriously dangerous passes where there's inches between the side of the car and the cyclist (normally the car overtaking the cyclist when there's a vehicle on the other side of the road), but I've also seen some dangerous cycling such as undertaking a car about to turn left. To me that's a pretty risk style of cycling.

Retrogamer

Some interesting and saddening stats at the bottom of this report

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/28345522

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The Freedom of Information figures in full

(Newsbeat obtained information from 45 police forces - 32 gave us useable statistics)

- Between 2007 and 2014 there were 276 recorded incidents where a cyclist was killed in an accident involving a motor vehicle.

- Of these 276 incidents, 148 resulted in the driver of the vehicle being charged with an offence - that's 54%.

- Of the 148 charged there were 108 convictions - 73%.

- Of the 108 convicted, 47 received a prison sentence - that's 44%.

- The average length of imprisonment was just under two years.
*************

Stoke

Retrogamer wrote: »

Some interesting and saddening stats at the bottom of this report

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/28345522

*****************
The Freedom of Information figures in full

(Newsbeat obtained information from 45 police forces - 32 gave us useable statistics)

- Between 2007 and 2014 there were 276 recorded incidents where a cyclist was killed in an accident involving a motor vehicle.

- Of these 276 incidents, 148 resulted in the driver of the vehicle being charged with an offence - that's 54%.

- Of the 148 charged there were 108 convictions - 73%.

- Of the 108 convicted, 47 received a prison sentence - that's 44%.

- The average length of imprisonment was just under two years.
*************

Those figures aren't nice to read, but do those figures also show that a significant number of accidents aren't the drivers fault?

Would a cyclist receive a conviction if they caused an accident?

andydiysaver

Norman_Castle wrote: »

Your opinions clearly come from behind a windscreen. Try cycling on the road using the same skill and judgement as when driving. You will discover how poor many drivers are.

Out of interest, how long have you been driving ?.

20 years, never hit anything cyclist or otherwise, I'm a great driver and my insurance is very low.


my comments on cyclists are through those 20 years experience, and with the upsurge in their numbers over last 5 years, there has been an upsurge in problem cyclists with attitude


I find it interesting how someone recently posted motorists should drop the attitude -that sounds like cyclist attitude to me. At worse we're only 50% of the problem, but I think it's nearer 60/40 - small man syndrome gives the extra 10% to the cyclist; we're not bullies but we are bigger than you, lorries are bigger than us, what you see a LOT less often, is psycho drivers cutting up lorries and taking crazy risks because we know what happens if that lorry hits us and any residual attidude is tempered by common sense and self preservation, this is why on an almost weekly basis I am completely amazed at what I see on show from some cyclists, versus a lorry, a car , or a bike, on the roads.

Retrogamer

Stoke wrote: »

Those figures aren't nice to read, but do those figures also show that a significant number of accidents aren't the drivers fault?

Those figures don't but i'm sure if you spent some time on google or even just senta FOI request to various police forces you could get those number as well.

Stoke wrote: »

Would a cyclist receive a conviction if they caused an accident?

Yes, but there's not a lot of deaths caused by negligent cyclists apart from their own.
If you mean charged though rather than prison time then plenty have and do get charged.
The stats i posted were specifically about motorists who caused the death of a cyclist, were successfully charged for doing so but never went to prison for it.

Marco_Panettone

andydiysaver wrote: »

20 years, never hit anything cyclist or otherwise, I'm a great driver and my insurance is very low.


my comments on cyclists are through those 20 years experience, and with the upsurge in their numbers over last 5 years, there has been an upsurge in problem cyclists with attitude


I find it interesting how someone recently posted motorists should drop the attitude -that sounds like cyclist attitude to me. At worse we're only 50% of the problem, but I think it's nearer 60/40 - small man syndrome gives the extra 10% to the cyclist; we're not bullies but we are bigger than you, lorries are bigger than us, what you see a LOT less often, is psycho drivers cutting up lorries and taking crazy risks because we know what happens if that lorry hits us and any residual attidude is tempered by common sense and self preservation, this is why on an almost weekly basis I am completely amazed at what I see on show from some cyclists, versus a lorry, a car , or a bike, on the roads.

"We're not bullies, but we're bigger than you" sounds somewhat threatening, to be perfectly honest, especially in the context or KSI stats.


You say 'we' (drivers) are only 50% of 'the problem', but you haven't said what this problem is. You accuse cyclists of being the other 50%, but in the context of KSI stats this is clearly not the case.


When cyclists take a risk, it is a risk with their own safety. When drivers (of any vehicle) take a risk, it is with someone else's safety. The two are not even nearly the same.

andydiysaver

Marco_Panettone wrote: »

"We're not bullies, but we're bigger than you" sounds somewhat threatening, to be perfectly honest, especially in the context or KSI stats.


You say 'we' (drivers) are only 50% of 'the problem', but you haven't said what this problem is. You accuse cyclists of being the other 50%, but in the context of KSI stats this is clearly not the case.


When cyclists take a risk, it is a risk with their own safety. When drivers (of any vehicle) take a risk, it is with someone else's safety. The two are not even nearly the same.

let me clarify then - on the bullies point - it's a statement of fact it's not a threat. I'm afraid it's how it is, I was quick to bring lorries in too - just to make the point we're all bound by the same code, which is, expressed as a physics equation, p = mv. As m, mass is the multiplier in this equation, you, as cyclists need to take it deadly seriously just as we drivers do when considering our behaviour around petrol filled juggernauts, it isn't bullying, it's a fact of life. What am I meant to say , bullying is an emotive term but physics is a science and like it or not you cyclists are subject to it just as the rest of us are. That's your problem and your attitude in nutshell - you do not think laws apply to you, just everyone else.


so to clarify on problem - problem is the vast difference in momentum and velocity between cars, lorries, just about everything else on the road........ and cyclists. That is also a problem whether you like it or not - and it's our problem as well as your problem because believe it or not the sane majority of us would do anything to NOT hit a cyclist


however it is the increasing militant attitude among cyclists that underpins the deadlock in this situation. one group refuse to know their place (due to physics not bullying!!!!) and the other get infuriated with their wayward sometimes psychotic and jumped up behaviour which is completely out of proportion with what would happen if they actually got hit - and where all the false bravado and attitude in the world would then not cover the world of hurt they found themselves in

Retrogamer

Is your use of the word militant meant make these statements sound more dramatic, or try and make the cyclists point of view seem less justified? It's quite common for people using the world incorrectly for these reasons.

I only ask because as far as i'm aware of it's definition and usage it's usually used to describe people who use violent confrontations to push across an agenda. It doesn't seem an accurate description.

Also, rather than refute a lot of the statements here properly you seem to cherry pick select parts of what people are saying and respond to them only whilst ignoring the rest.

An interesting thing i've noticed is when a cyclist cycles normally and isn't being dangerous (i.e vast majority of them) drivers go into auto pilot mode and ignore them.
When one of them does something dangerous and the driver notices it sticks in their head a lot longer. They come out of auto pilot and take notice.
This leaves drivers unable to remember all the good cyclists because they forget about them or don't notice them, but they remember the bad ones and after a while they start to think most cycle like that.

I'm sure BMW, Audi and Range Rover drivers get the same negative stigma sometimes.

Marco_Panettone

Do you feel that "might is right" is a good way to organise how people choose to travel from A to B?


You do realise that I am a pedestrian, cyclist, driver and passenger? In your 'them and us' I'm firmly in both camps.


Why is the difference is velocity a problem for you? On most of my journeys by bike I'm moving faster than the motor vehicles. Is this also a problem?


Why do you assume I think the law (of physics, and of the land, apparently) don't apply to me?


Where is "my place"? How do you (personally) deal with death threats and being physically threatened for obeying the law?