is it legal to self install solar to run the meter backwards

EricMears

happenstance wrote: »

Thanks Mart, that's interesting stuff about Spain - but not surprising! If they were paid to feed in even the new lower uk rate, overnight the energy companies would go bankrupt!

The energy companies don't actually fund FIT payments - they're just agents for our government.

happenstance

EricMears wrote: »

The energy companies don't actually fund FIT payments - they're just agents for our government.

Yes I know, but my point for the Spanish energy companies is that if people could make money from FIT in a sunny country most people would install solar and their revenue would collapse and their debts would bankrupt the energy companies.

Martyn1981

happenstance wrote: »

Yes I know, but my point for the Spanish energy companies is that if people could make money from FIT in a sunny country most people would install solar and their revenue would collapse and their debts would bankrupt the energy companies.

FiT has nothing to do with it. Consumers can't install "unsubsidised" PV in Spain since they will be charged a grid tied fee for exporting units, even if they don't export. The fee is based on total generation, not any units exported (without payment) that the grid can then sell on. This fee makes self consumed PV units more expensive than imported units - it protects the leccy companies from losing market share.

Think - Tesco's being able to charge you a fee for any fruit and veg you grow in your garden!

Spain's competition watchdog blasts government plans to tax solar

http://www.pv-magazine.com/news/details/beitrag/spains-competition-watchdog-blasts-government-plans-to-tax-solar_100012783/#axzz2fHCSRwOS

Spanish energy regulator blasts government proposals

http://www.pv-magazine.com/news/details/beitrag/spanish-energy-regulator-blasts-government-proposals_100012716/#axzz2eQpFeokW

And if you try to avoid the 'export' charges by going off-grid:

NPD Solarbuzz: Spain’s solar u-turn could expose €20 billion PV bubble

Proposed new laws would fine those with solar panels making use of the old off-grid, self-consumption programme (known as “autoconsumo”) by as much as €30 million (US$39.9 million) if they did not connect to the grid.

http://www.pv-tech.org/news/npd_solarbuzz_spains_solar_u_turn_could_expose_20_billion_pv_bubble_5647


Not just PV, renewables are scaring the hell out of leccy companies all over the world. And recent reports calculating the true cost of energy (including health and environmental damage) don't help, as they are showing coal is less cost effective than renewables:

Renewable energy now the cheapest option for Americans, study finds

http://www.pv-magazine.com/news/details/beitrag/renewable-energy-now-the-cheapest-option-for-americans--study-finds_100012772/#axzz2fHCSRwOS

So it's just going to get worse for the poor leccy companies ..... unless they 'do a Spanish'!

Mart.

happenstance

Dont think I worded it well, basically Spain have the opposite of a feed in tariff to protect the leccy companys if they want continuous leccy with grid tie?

Kernel_Sanders

Martyn1981 wrote: »

£916 for 0.705kWp without any fixing kit and DIY, sounds very expensive, compared to an MCS install that qualifies for FiTs, at perhaps £1.5k/kWp (4kWp for £6k).

This is sound advice, although the £/kWp guide price will increase with a small system due to reduced economies of scale.

EricMears wrote: »

The energy companies don't actually fund FIT payments - they're just agents for our government.

I used to think this, and my presumption was reinforced after receiving a letter from SSE saying 'Thank you for choosing us as your FiTs supplier'. I assumed the Government paid them for the administration as well as reimbursing the payments, whereas in fact they fund neither.

EricMears

Kernel_Sanders wrote: »

I used to think this, and my presumption was reinforced after receiving a letter from SSE saying 'Thank you for choosing us as your FiTs supplier'. I assumed the Government paid them for the administration as well as reimbursing the payments, whereas in fact they fund neither.

I wasn't quite sure whether that was agreeing or disagreeing with me

However, this page from 'Good Energy' makes the process clear

Martyn1981

happenstance wrote: »

Dont think I worded it well, basically Spain have the opposite of a feed in tariff to protect the leccy companys if they want continuous leccy with grid tie?

Spot on.

To be honest, I didn't used to think so badly of the leccy companies, or the FF industry, but the more I see and read now, the more frustrated I get. They argued, lobbied and plotted (Koch brothers!) against renewables on the grounds that it wouldn't work, then suddenly they realised they missed the boat, so start arguing for protection - profit protection.

Oh well, I suppose it'll all sort itself in the end, it just seems sad when you look at Spain with 'socket parity' now (demand side PV without subsidies) and possibly 'grid parity' (supply side PV without subsidies) in a year or so - and it gets blocked. Germany also has socket parity, but that's a slightly unfair comparison as the leccy price is much higher (early adopters and all that).

I'm sure there's a sunny side to this somewhere.

Anyway, sorry for the diversion, if you can afford it, I'd have a good think about installing a larger FiT qualifying system. Whilst a smaller (2kWp?) system does cost more proportionately it may still work (my WNW does, but only just), but you'll need to dip your toe in and get some assessments/quotes etc. Nothing ventured and so on ...

Mart.

ILW

What is the payback period on a £1000 system?

Kernel_Sanders

EricMears wrote: »

I wasn't quite sure whether that was agreeing or disagreeing with me

I was disagreeing, but I don't have to go searching for the proof as you have kindly provided it yourself ......
Once all payment claims have been received, OFGEM invoices the energy suppliers for their contribution into the fund. Energy suppliers pay into the fund in proportion to the number of electricity customers that they have. Once these payments are received from the energy suppliers, OFGEM then pays each FIT licensee the payment amount they have claimed on behalf of their FIT generators.

EricMears

Kernel_Sanders wrote: »

Energy suppliers pay into the fund in proportion to the number of electricity customers that they have.

Of course that should really read "Energy suppliers pay into the fund the amounts they have surcharged their consumers" ! The way it was put makes it sound like an act of generosity by the RECs