Surprising statistic?

Rotor

Tancred wrote: »

Like most statistics, utterly meaningless. Our take home pay might be higher, but so are our debts, especially mortgages; and we also pay a lot in council tax, duty on fuel, VAT and various other indirect taxes.

Few other countries are as saddled as us with huge mortgage debt.

Debts are just another form of spending.
I can understand your point on the indirect taxes being a drain on purchasing power and a reduction in effective pay but mortgages are just another choice of how one spends.

Loughton_Monkey

Rotor wrote: »

Debts are just another form of spending.
I can understand your point on the indirect taxes being a drain on purchasing power and a reduction in effective pay but mortgages are just another choice of how one spends.

I have never accounted for it that way.

The mortgage I took out was debt. I exchanged the money for a house, which I consider an investment.

The interest on my debt was indeed 'spending'. Any capital I have paid off is simply a transfer from one asset (savings) to another asset (house equity).

Last Friday, I spent £103 at Sainsburys. I paid with my credit card. Therefore I had a debt of £103. At the end of September, I will transfer £103 from my current account to Amex. It will clear the debt. Hence there is no interest, so I didn't spend any more than the £103.

CLAPTON

grizzly1911 wrote: »

I wonder when they fit in the golf in other countries?


Do you have any stats to show how many actually play golf?

Is their full cover in private hospitals at the weekend - they do share large numbers of clinical staff?

If you starve something for many years it needed feeding for some tome to get it back to "normal". In which time things have moved forward in leaps and bounds and you are continually having to play catch up.

simply stupid

grizzly1911

CLAPTON wrote: »

simply stupid

Why?

Which bit exactly?

Because it doesn't fit with your blinkered view?

You made the point that they all play golf on a Sunday not me and insinuated they CBA - I asked you for evidence.

wotsthat

grizzly1911 wrote: »

You made the point that they all play golf on a Sunday not me and insinuated they CBA - I asked you for evidence.

The doctors I know sail as well, do some off roading, and generally engage in some conspicuous consumption. Weekend working would cramp their style.

They mock this government and the last. They can't believe how much money has been thrown at them without any expectation of anything in return.

They answer to no-one. They acknowledge that lack of cover leads to less favourable outcomes - not their problem.

CLAPTON

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24033376


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23312435


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9612616/NHS-hospitals-weekend-death-rates-up-to-a-third-higher.html


http://www.scotsman.com/news/health/hospitals-should-run-full-seven-day-service-call-1-3087777


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2372276/Overstretched-NHS-hospitals-just-consultant-look-120-patients-weekends-areas.html

http://drfosterintelligence.co.uk/2011/11/28/press-release-new-report-finds-higher-death-rates-at-hospitals-with-fewer-doctors-at-evenings-and-weekends/


http://www.channel4.com/news/nhs-hospitals-care-report-royal-college-of-physicians-rcp
......

AndyGuil

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

We are just over twice theirs as far as I can see (GDP).

If you factor in (a) that South Korea is not a 'Nanny State' in which the government controls 50% of spending, and (b) the far cheaper prices there, then I suspect you'd get a bit closer. Net salary spending power is not insignificant.

When I lived there [2000 to 2004] most things were far cheaper. The exception was housing. Apartments in Seoul were ridiculously expensive.

My Interpreter - a lovely 30 year old Korean girl - earned £35K in 2002. My secretary, around £25K. But no pension. No unemployment benefit. No pregnancy leave. 1 week holiday per annum.

It's normal to take a loan, equivalent to a small mortgage to pay rent too.

grizzly1911

CLAPTON wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24033376


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23312435


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9612616/NHS-hospitals-weekend-death-rates-up-to-a-third-higher.html


http://www.scotsman.com/news/health/hospitals-should-run-full-seven-day-service-call-1-3087777


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2372276/Overstretched-NHS-hospitals-just-consultant-look-120-patients-weekends-areas.html

http://drfosterintelligence.co.uk/2011/11/28/press-release-new-report-finds-higher-death-rates-at-hospitals-with-fewer-doctors-at-evenings-and-weekends/


http://www.channel4.com/news/nhs-hospitals-care-report-royal-college-of-physicians-rcp
......

And what?

The BMJ has previously shown that this isn't a UK only phenomenon and I haven't said it isn't. Death rates up 25% on what, for what, when, what was the size of sample and over how long? Who selected the statistics and for what purpose?

How many hours do key medical staff work?

How many hours do you want them to work?

If you want more cover, whether that be at consultant, SHO, Registar, Nurse, Medical Imaging then their is a limit to how many hours you can expect an individual to perform.

How do you propose those medical staff cover the additional duties when they are already working full work rotas. By all means spread them thinner, and spread the death rate over 7 days, get rid of that ugly spike at weekends.

Hospitals have been made more "efficient" by concentrating resources into key sites, removing duplication and spare capacity from distributed regional hospitals. All the time the population grows, the number of diagnostic test and procedures increases. If you concentrate the demand with little resilience or spare capacity, whether from demand or failure of resource it is not surprising that issues and problems arise and get magnified. It also not surprising that the problem becomes more difficult to resolve.

Many patients shouldn't be in hospital and certainly shouldn't remain in hospital but other resources to provide for care have been removed to make things more "efficient" and save money.

Making things more "efficient" usually entails curbing resources with a greater reliance on more chiefs to co-ordinate less and less indians.

grizzly1911

wotsthat wrote: »

The doctors I know sail as well, do some off roading, and generally engage in some conspicuous consumption. Weekend working would cramp their style.

They mock this government and the last. They can't believe how much money has been thrown at them without any expectation of anything in return.

They answer to no-one. They acknowledge that lack of cover leads to less favourable outcomes - not their problem.

The doctors are I know and have known have been fastidious hard workers who go the extra mile. They do of course need some time off they are not automatons. Presumably if they didn't take the weekend off they would be off at other times. I am not sure it is up to us to make comment on their leisure pursuits.

I do find it interesting that a few smoke and drink to excess whilst advising their patients to moderate behaviour. But they aren't alone in being holier than thou perhaps they are MPs in waiting.

I am not surprised they mock governments. Governments, politicians and business suits know the medical profession inside out. Millburn, Lansley and Hunt prove that every time they open their mouths. Cameron knows his way around hospitals too, particularly the infection control protocols.

I think they do actually answer to people but don't suffer fools gladly. The same could be said about our banksters.

My wife had an issue during a recent procedure and her consultant, actually phoned her at home on a Bank Holiday to talk through her concerns.

As is usually the case the 95% (not an absolute figure) "success" rate is trashed by the limited number of failures but that is confined to medical care. Sick people tend to go to hospital. Not surprisingly a proportion of those will not come out. My father said years ago that doctors always bury their mistakes and he was alive before the NHS, his brother didn't get a chance as there was no NHS.