LGPS Investments

quotememiserable

taktikback wrote: »

pension payments are just deferred salary. That's just the way these jobs are structured. You could get more pay in the private sector and a rubbish money purchase pension - it's just different ways of cutting up the salary cake...

Its often quoted by local government people that they would be paid more in the private sector. I really don't think that's true. The private sector is much tougher on salaries. I think local gov people have two cuts of the cake, which is why its sticks in the throat when they also complain about being hard done by - although I admit this is partly due to ignorance about how great their pension scheme is.

taktikback

That's a fair point -I hadn't considered that. If salaries rise by less than the CPI revaluation, then the pre-2014 final salary portion isn't actually protected - it's exposed! (All this assumes no promotions have occurred)

Which is an argument in favour of the new scheme for many employees with no promotional prospects...

patchwork_cat

Oblivion wrote: »

Well yes, but the employing local council also has to pay in and it's a darned sight more than the employee's contribution and is based on actuarial valuations to keep the fund solvent. And where does the council's contribution come from? ... your council tax, and the more council tax is spent on the pensions fund, the less there is left to finance services.

So it's very much the business of those who are not members of the scheme.

No it is not. This is one thing that really gets me. They are changing the scheme yet again to an average earnings scheme. Local govt pay is not as good as the private sector the one advantage was the pension. It is not members of the schemes business where it is invested.

Local govt employees have not had a pay rise in 4 years and are being offered 1% from now on. The pension is changing to average career earnings, local govt cannot recruit, even when allowed as no one, even in the current market, is prepared to work for the conditions .

patchwork_cat

To all those that think local govt is so wonderful, why don't you work there? Local govt can't recruit above basic levels, when it is allowed. Why not?

DH's area have tried recruiting at graduate entry level and above and can't, no one wants to know. Pay and conditions are so poor, morale is demoralised and workload is ridiculous. On the back of all this they are changing the pension for the second time in five years. They have had a 4 year pay freeze and 1% offer!

What salary would you expect a Russell Group civil engineering graduate with 20 years + post graduate experience and a professional post graduate qualification controlling a budget of £1.7 mill to have in the private sector?

hyubh

quotememiserable wrote: »

The private sector is much tougher on salaries.

If that were so, then it would positively impact employer contribution rates of private sector contractors who have entered the LGPS for TUPE'd staff. In practice those rates are higher than ever.

hyubh

woolly_wombat wrote: »

Yes but no but! Do you trust governments not to increase the state retirement age again and again in the future? I don't!

Giving how the scheme NPA is being tied to the state retirement age, I hope future governments will. I say that precisely because I'm in favour of the LGPS continuing in something like it's present form, and ideally, actually expanding by making it a condition of local authority outsourcing that the contractor has an open admission agreement with the pension fund. For that to be even vaguely possible the scheme needs to be 'affordable' however.

For the same reason I also hope someone sees sense and realises that making the scheme actually cheaper for low paid employees is a mistake - if opt outs are an issue, LGPS membership should (IMO) be a condition of employment, like it was for the first 60 years of the scheme's existence, albeit in the context of much stricter eligibility rules.

woolly_wombat

hyubh wrote: »

For the same reason I also hope someone sees sense and realises that making the scheme actually cheaper for low paid employees is a mistake - if opt outs are an issue, LGPS membership should (IMO) be a condition of employment, like it was for the first 60 years of the scheme's existence, albeit in the context of much stricter eligibility rules.

Ah yes! My last line manager retired earlier this year after nearly 30 years service. She had worked very part-time hours when her own family was young and had thus found herself barred from LGPS membership in the past. Unfortunately she could not afford to buy back years when the rules were changed.

A replacement has been appointed on a far higher salary (the job description was sent out for independent verification before being advertised). Mind you the new person is extremely highly qualified, by far and away the most educated member of staff in the science department, if not the entire school.

Times have changed and we are now seeing graduates routinely recruited in support roles in the school where I work. Not long ago few were interested in these roles, unless they were undertaken to fit in with family responsibilities.

WW

hyubh

patchwork_cat wrote: »

What salary would you expect a Russell Group civil engineering graduate with 20 years + post graduate experience and a professional post graduate qualification controlling a budget of £1.7 mill to have in the private sector?

I do not personally see there to be any reason for the public sector to imitate the gross disparities in pay the private sector witnesses, except when it is thought desirable to bring in an outsider, in which case private sector-style executive pay would be a temporary expedient.

bigadaj

patchwork_cat wrote: »

To all those that think local govt is so wonderful, why don't you work there? Local govt can't recruit above basic levels, when it is allowed. Why not?

DH's area have tried recruiting at graduate entry level and above and can't, no one wants to know. Pay and conditions are so poor, morale is demoralised and workload is ridiculous. On the back of all this they are changing the pension for the second time in five years. They have had a 4 year pay freeze and 1% offer!

What salary would you expect a Russell Group civil engineering graduate with 20 years + post graduate experience and a professional post graduate qualification controlling a budget of £1.7 mill to have in the private sector?

This is broadly my area, so I'm guessing a total package of around 50k in private sector depending in where you are in the country. Taking account of the pension element that would leave a base salary of say 40k. This would be for say a fifty hour week in the private sector, no overtime. We've had two pay rises of around 2% in the last five years, this is in total so were not talking inflation rises, promotion rises or anything on top.

Would be interested to hear your numbers, I don't know public sector equivalents but know that our planners are significantly worse off then public sector equivalents, even base salaries are higher forgetting about pension.

patchwork_cat

bigadaj wrote: »

This is broadly my area, so I'm guessing a total package of around 50k in private sector depending in where you are in the country. Taking account of the pension element that would leave a base salary of say 40k. This would be for say a fifty hour week in the private sector, no overtime. We've had two pay rises of around 2% in the last five years, this is in total so were not talking inflation rises, promotion rises or anything on top.

Would be interested to hear your numbers, I don't know public sector equivalents but know that our planners are significantly worse off then public sector equivalents, even base salaries are higher forgetting about pension.

Well my DH is paid £15k less than that and receives a pension contribution equivalent to £3600 a year. I think your £10k a year is heavy for a pension when you consider that my DH started his pension contributions at 25 - a rule of thumb I believe is half your age at start as a % of salary - £6000 would be more like it, for your 50K private sector salary.

My DH doesn't get any overtime either and is expected to attend evening meetings etc. My DH has had no pay rises in 4 years, not even inflation. I think if you are being honest you will accept that this is not good and that is why they can not recruit.