Am i likely to get in trouble or mortgage declined for this?

fewcloudy

I'm a great fan of Martin Lewis and MSE, but very occasionally things come up, like this situation, where the practices recommended by the group can be counter productive for some people. Mortgage-free, or sitting pretty on a 25 year mortgage that you're happy with, then great, shift your cash all over the place to eek out those extra pennies and pounds that are just there for the taking. But if you're planning on asking banks for large loans in the near future then very quickly those cleverly acquired extra pennies and pounds might soon stop being "easy money by simple redistribution of your funds", and actually end up biting you in the !!!... But often on here the money-saving-tips are touted as something that only a fool would not take up, when (as we see here) that isn't always the case.

It's all very well saying the banks 'encourage us' to do these things, but I've seen a heck of a lot of encouragement right here on this site to do these things too.

fiesta04

To the OP, JAS aka KP83 & N-L

I do really feel for you in your situation, as you have done what has been suggested the best options to follow only to realise that these were not the best for you.

It will all work out ok in the end.

Never regret what you have done, as it was the right decision at the time.

F4

amnblog

It doesn't have to be illegal.

It just needs to look 'odd' and that can be enough for a lender to drop the case. They dont need to take the risk and don't have the staff, time or expertise to deal with anything unusual.

Therefore if you are going to apply for a mortgage try not to be too 'clever' with the way you handle your bank accounts.

In this case, a regular payment to the OP's sister 'smells' of an undeclared debt to her.

holly_hobby

She apparently returns the money immediately to him, and unless he can prove that the 1k from him is from legitimate sources, he'll certainly struggle with ML - given as he says it goes in and straight back to him in less than 24 hrs.

TBH as I've said, I do suspect the UW will find the whole sister arrangement a tad whiffy and underhand, and if not a ML exercise, its nevertheless clearly a convulted way of assisting the Sister in meeting special criteria for a high rate of return, that she otherwise wouldn't qualify for from her own personal income reciepts - and I don't think it will give the best impression of the OP.

Anyhoo, I'm not the uw on this case, so we'll see what comes out with the wash on it ..... hopefully they will be gentle !

Hope this helps

Holly x

John1993_2

amnblog wrote: »

It doesn't have to be illegal.

It just needs to look 'odd' and that can be enough for a lender to drop the case.

To add to this and the other posts, the money-laundering legislation is quite fierce. It's an offence simply not to spot it happpening, and even to not check thoroughly enough. There's not any "but the customer said it was OK", it's a major offence to not pick up on laundering if a "reasnable person" should have done so.

Rightly or wrongly there is advice on this forum to carry out activity that is to all intents and purposes indistinguishable from layering. It's virtually inevitable that this will lead to investigations and refusals when the same account is used for new business.

Edited to add, as I've not made it clear, if you are legitimately shifting your money around, you'll not get into "trouble". It can trigger a closer look, but there's nothing illegal about shifting legal money as you have been. Whether it'll deter a lender from dealing wiith you is another matter.

Goldiegirl

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

2 things -

I know what you're saying (so i'm not meaning to be picky), but it wasn't even in my sisters account 24 hours. The money doesn't even stay there 10 minutes. I give her a shout, i transfer, she logs on, she transfers back, sorted. 5 minutes at the very most?

.

I think the money going to the sisters account will be the biggest problem.

When they are checking all your accounts, they'll see the money going out to your sister and coming back. But, they won't be able to tell that it's the SAME money. For all they know, your sister transfers your clean £1000 out of her account, and puts back in your account a dirty £1000 ten minutes later, for laundering. Without seeing your sisters bank statements, they might not be able to satisfy themselves on this point.

It sounds extreme, but now the situation has arisen, it'll need to be resolved.

To be honest, although I've been working in banks for my whole working life, I've been astounded at some of the practices the people on this site recommend. I find this whole money churning thing has got out of hand..... and don't even mention the 'PPI claiming' culture!

amnblog

If I were underwriting this case I would be tempted to put a soca report in.

This is a report to the serious crime office if you see anything that 'looks suspicious'. Financial services firms are legally bound to report anything that does not seem right. Also, they cannot talk to the subject about their suspicions as alterting them is also an offence.

John1993_2

Goldiegirl wrote: »

To be honest, although I've been working in banks for my whole working life, I've been astounded at some of the practices the people on this site recommend.

If people on here could sit through the regular anti-laundering training that we have to take, I suspect that they'd be far less keen to engage in these elaborate schemes to eke out a few pounds of free money.

Of course, it's the public's perception that banking is the wild West, where anything goes, and that we never have to fear the intervention of the law or the "toothless regulators", so most people likely expect that they'll never be called on it.

It's not the case with the OP here, but some people seem to get truly indignant when they see banks correctly carrying out their due diligence.

JustAnotherSaver

Thanks for the responses, even though it's not what i wanted to hear, i guess it's going to be the truth.

So on the back of what's been said here ....

* We're very likely going to be refused a mortgage by NW (or indeed ANY lender)
* We're going to lose out on the house we're going for & indeed ANY house that we may require a deposit for
* We MAY get reported for transferring the money (specifically to my sisters account).

This is not be having a strop about what's been posted back. This is me taking on board what you guys have said.

We MAY get what i'd probably call lucky & we may get accepted once we've proved the current entries
However, based on what you guys have said, they'll just have enough of the 'strange activity' & they'll say forget this, as will every other lender.

Destined to stay at home with parent for the rest of my days then perhaps. That is, unless i get lifted for cycling this money.

Again, this genuinely isn't a sarcastic response. Just the way i fear it's going to end up. Despite us legitimately having the deposit, it's looking like it's going to be worthless. We may as well blow the lot on gambling or something & start from scratch it seems.



Out of curiosity ... i wonder if a statement from my sisters account (showing the money in & then returned) may help?

BobQ

John1993 wrote: »

To add to this and the other posts, the money-laundering legislation is quite fierce. It's an offence simply not to spot it happpening, and even to not check thoroughly enough. There's not any "but the customer said it was OK", it's a major offence to not pick up on laundering if a "reasnable person" should have done so.

Rightly or wrongly there is advice on this forum to carry out activity that is to all intents and purposes indistinguishable from layering. It's virtually inevitable that this will lead to investigations and refusals when the same account is used for new business.

Edited to add, as I've not made it clear, if you are legitimately shifting your money around, you'll not get into "trouble". It can trigger a closer look, but there's nothing illegal about shifting legal money as you have been. Whether it'll deter a lender from dealing wiith you is another matter.

Well I guess the OP has the answer they were looking for even if its not what they wanted to hear.

I appreciate the comments like that above. I do recall many people on MSE speaking of doing this between their own accounts. Not sure I have seen people advise doing this between "consenting adults" but they may have done so. That said I know a few people who do this without any concern for the consequences. Maybe MSE should issue some advice on the implications?

I suspect that to anyone looking at the accounts of people who have a substantial amount of cash will have no difficulty finding things that are suspicious as they move money around to get the best interest rates.