Taxi advice

CKhalvashi

Hey all

I don't pop over here often, so please bear with me on this.

I've had a driver approach us this week regarding driving for us. Council badge and plated car have checked out, but what is concerning me is the fact that there's a car worth £10k-ish, with the V5 in his name been placed on my desk this morning. We have to check this.

Checks that we undertake (due to a contract for services) have confirmed that the individual in question was declared bankrupt in March. I am aware that in bankruptcy, taxi drivers etc are often given a higher car allowance, but I'd be expecting 5-7yr old Mondeo/Vectra/Octavia money, not a car worth around £10k.

Any ideas, and is there anywhere I can get some advice on this?

CK

TheGardener

I was sent a letter by my OR/Examiner specifically about my car (my only asset) telling me what the arrangements were to be in BR (mine essential for work but was low value so 'of no interest' to the OR) If you suspect the guy has acted fraudulently in some way - rather than just curiosity on your part - maybe you could ask for a copy of a similar letter stating what the OR's decision was on his assets? You could contact your local Insolvency Service Office for more info - if you suspect fraud?

CKhalvashi

TheGardener wrote: »

I was sent a letter by my OR/Examiner specifically about my car (my only asset) telling me what the arrangements were to be in BR (mine essential for work but was low value so 'of no interest' to the OR) Maybe this guy can produce a similar letter stating what the OR's decision was on his vehicle?

I'll make the call now, asking him to produce evidence. I have, however, erred on the side of caution and not taken him back on until I'm aware of where the vehicle stands on this, for obvious legal reasons.

Anondebtadvisor

If you have concerns that assets are being concealed from the OR then you should report your concerns directly to the OR or Trustee dealing with the bankruptcy.

However is the car is required to trade so that the debtor can earn a living, it is quite possible that the car has been exempt as an asset. If he cannot trade he cannot pay any income payments agreement.

If the car is worth £10k as you say, they taxi driver will need £5 to £6k for a decent car leaving £4000 before "costs" for creditors - which will result in no return to the creditors!

It is also possible that a 3rd party bought his interest in the car.

The ORs office are used to such phone calls but they very often result in no action whatsoever

CKhalvashi

Anondebtadvisor wrote: »

If you have concerns that assets are being concealed from the OR then you should report your concerns directly to the OR or Trustee dealing with the bankruptcy.

However is the car is required to trade so that the debtor can earn a living, it is quite possible that the car has been exempt as an asset. If he cannot trade he cannot pay any income payments agreement.

If the car is worth £10k as you say, they taxi driver will need £5 to £6k for a decent car leaving £4000 before "costs" for creditors - which will result in no return to the creditors!

It is also possible that a 3rd party bought his interest in the car.

It's possible to get your hands on '56' plate stuff that's suitable for less than £2k, and that will be suitable for the next 3 years, hence should be suitable. '57', maybe £2.5k to £3k, giving the additional year, so with £10k being a trade price, the benefit to creditors we're talking about, assuming the vehicle could possibly be sold privately, could be pushing £10k, at auction, possibly pushing £7k.

I do see that in certain circumstances, the car could be exempt, however there is little executive work locally, and we've got a few Merc E's, a Merc S and one of the owner-drivers has a BMW X6, so a Superb is a 'standard' taxi for us (which is now forming the 'base' of our company cars).

The ORs office are used to such phone calls but they very often result in no action whatsoever

Which unfortunately IMO, needs looking into.

CK

CKhalvashi

Quick update - phoned the OR, who were aware he has a car, but an 'X' reg Galaxy. Unaware, and are very interested by it.

Thanks for the advice Anondebtadvisor.

CK

alastairq

Before conclusions are jumped to, has it been considered that the BR individual might not be the actual owner of the car?

This issue has been raised more times than I care to remember on this forum...the difference between being the owner, and being the Registered Keeper?

Hence, if the car is actually owned by someone else....[even though registered in the BR's name]....it has nothing whatsoever to do with the bankruptcy.


It is sadly such a common misconception that the 'new car' on the BR's drive is somehow a fiddle, and shouldn't be allowed!

Errata

CKhalvashi wrote: »

Quick update - phoned the OR, who were aware he has a car, but an 'X' reg Galaxy. Unaware of a '10' reg Skoda, especially one in his name, and are very interested by it.

Thanks for the advice Anondebtadvisor.

CK

So out of the blue you spoke to the OR office, who don't know you from Adam, and they immediately gave you financial information on someone who has nothing to do with you? Over the phone?
Yeah, right.

CKhalvashi

alastairq wrote: »

Before conclusions are jumped to, has it been considered that the BR individual might not be the actual owner of the car?

This issue has been raised more times than I care to remember on this forum...the difference between being the owner, and being the Registered Keeper?

Hence, if the car is actually owned by someone else....[even though registered in the BR's name]....it has nothing whatsoever to do with the bankruptcy.

It is sadly such a common misconception that the 'new car' on the BR's drive is somehow a fiddle, and shouldn't be allowed!

However, with inability to gain credit without disclosing status, paired with what is known regarding the individual in question's status, I think it's a good punt that something could be going on.

Errata wrote: »

So out of the blue you spoke to the OR office, who don't know you from Adam, and they immediately gave you financial information on someone who has nothing to do with you? Over the phone?
Yeah, right.

Please remember that in cases like this, where the person mentioning things like this knows a lot about the individual in question, it was obvious that this was more than a wind-up.

I mentioned the car, OR mentioned they were aware of a vehicle, but not with that VRM, I mentioned the old VRM, and the answer to this was 'we know about that one'.

Under the DPA, it is allowed to confirm/deny details, but not to give information. As you've probably worked out from the above, in the case of this individual, I know rather a lot.

CK

alastairq

However, with inability to gain credit without disclosing status, paired with what is known regarding the individual in question's status, I think it's a good punt that something could be going on.

Presumption.

Indisputable fact would be more useful.

Credit status may have nothing whatsoever to do with the car....which may have been purchased by another, for your subject's use.

Something, not unheard of?

coolcait

alastairq wrote: »

Presumption.

Indisputable fact would be more useful.

Credit status may have nothing whatsoever to do with the car....which may have been purchased by another, for your subject's use.

Something, not unheard of?

But isn't that for the OR to investigate?

If someone is worried that they may have witnessed a fraudulent act - or that they risk being dragged into a fraudulent act - then they should report the facts that they know to the relevant authority.

For example, that an individual is the registered keeper of car 'x' - giving details of the type of car, how old it is, mileage etc.

It is then for the relevant authority to investigate (or not) to the extent needed. Which may or may not be to the extent of 'indisputable fact', or 'beyond reasonable doubt'. 'Balance of probabilities' might be enough.