Employment - Advice needed ASAP!

red_machenka

Hi all,

We really need some help with what to do next.

I will try and explain everything as best I can.

My husband has worked as an employee (full time) for a company for just over a year.

His contracted hours are 7.30am - 4pm mon - fri. A few weeks ago he and 3 others where asked to work nights for a period of 7 weeks (9pm- 4am mon - fri).

He was told verbally (as where the other 3) that they would get time and a half until midnight then double time thereafter.

almost 3 weeks in to the work they have all now been told that they wont get the double time (only time and a half). I contacted ACAS and they said it was a verbal contract and therefore what was agreed stands and they are deducting his wages unlawfully.

He was advised to speak to his manager to try to get it sorted.

He went into work yesterday afternoon for a meeting and was given a letter of redundancy (30 days). While there he spoke to his manager and his manager said that he has taken up the wage issue with his senior but he was told they (the 4 workers ) "wont be getting double time as it is a different shift"... like it or lump it basically!

ACAS also said that he could ask to go back on days (as per his contract) but having spoken to his manager this morning he was told that it wont be possible as they have no body to cover him on the night work!

So they've backed him into a corner, lied to him originally about how much wages he would get, so that he agreed to the night work (as they are desperate to get this contract done), then when he's on the night work they tell him he wont get the wages originally agreed but he cant go back on days as there is no work on days!

IMO they have done all this knowing full well that all 4 workers where going to be made redundant at the end of the month! :mad:

I'd be grateful if anyone could give some advice as to what to do next...

Many thanks
Hannah

saintjammyswine

I know you havent asked about this but if he is at risk/under notice of redundancy he qualifies for ESF funding through the local FE College to help with re-training (if he needs it) to help him back into employment. Contact your local FE College and ask about ESF Skills Support for Redundancy. Sorry I cant help further.

marybelle01

ACAS really are ****e, aren't they? Of course the correct advice would be "you may have a verbal contract, but you can't prove a verbal contract anyway; and start making any demands of an employer that you haven't worked for for more than two years and you will be collecting your P45". It may not be the legally correct answer, but the most accurate one! Sorry, too late, there's not a thing they can do. And I doubt they have been made redundant either - that's what a lot of employers call "you asked the wrong questions and so we are getting rid of you". Nasty, but that is the way the world sometimes is, and these days it's really advisable to keep your head down at work if you aren't able to enforce what you think are your rights. ACAS should have warned you what the likely consequences were.

Dunroamin

I suppose it's too much to hope that he and his fellow workers are in a union?

red_machenka

Sorry but I should have made it clearer... all the employees are being made redundant as this sector of the business is closing.

So your saying that ACAS are wrong? 4 employees where all told about the double time by both their manager and their supervisor.. surely telling 4 people the same thing is 'proof'.

Not sure about the union thing?

marybelle01

red_machenka wrote: »

Sorry but I should have made it clearer... all the employees are being made redundant as this sector of the business is closing.

So your saying that ACAS are wrong? 4 employees where all told about the double time by both their manager and their supervisor.. surely telling 4 people the same thing is 'proof'.

Not sure about the union thing?

No. I am saying ACAS live in cloud cuckoo land. Four employees say the same thing? That is only evidence that four employees are lying if the employer says different. You get things in writing. The employees were mistaken - they thought they were getting the payments made to a different shift and never were. Their mistake. If there is nothing in writing then it is impossible to prove that they are owed a penny. And it will cost them to find out if a tribunal agrees with them - a total of £390 if it goes to a hearing. Each! But since it would be a multiple party claim it would be £320 for all four just to submit a claim and then £640 more if it went to a hearing. With no proof? Are they really willing to risk that with no proof?

Employers know this - they know nobody is going to risk that kind of money when they have no proof. And ACAS should know that too. If everyone is being made redundant then fair enough - this time they didn't get sacked for it, but that's the normal reaction of a lot of employers to demands, and they need to know that.

Dunroamin is right - I don't suppose they are in a union, and they should be, but in this case I doubt even a union could do much about the situation without proof.

Sorry - that's what I think. Maybe others will disagree, but I don't see any way you can do anything if the employer says you aren't getting the money.

red_machenka

I think it is unlikely that hubby would want to take it to a tribunal or any of the other workers for that matter. We just wanted to get an idea if there was anything he could do to get the company to either pay the original agreed amount or put him back on his day work.

I understand about your point on 'Proof', but would it ever be possible to prove a verbal agreement?

If not, why would anyone suggest that verbal agreement is as valid as a written agreement/contract? there are a number of online resources that suggest a verbal agreement/contract is as valid as a written agreement.

Also, his company say that it is a different shift, so why is that not put on his wage slip as basic? his wage slip only has overtime on it (no basic).

If indeed it is overtime, his contract states that he would get time and a half for the first 4 hours over normal working hours then double time thereafter.

Breech of contract????

I don't mean to be rude marybelle01 but you sound so bitter, with regards to ACAS and employees trying to be treated fairly.
My husband works extremely hard for this company and has done since the day he started, he puts himself out when he knows that extra work needs doing to get job finished on time etc.

I totally agree with you that companies will do their upmost to pay as little as possible especially during the hard financial times, it just annoys me (being a small business owner) that these large companies feel that they can do what they want and, I'm sure for the most part, get away with it.

marybelle01

I didn't say that a verbal contract isn't valid in law. I said you can't prove what a verbal contract says.

And sorry, but if you had read around some of these sorts of sites about advice from ACAS then you would be as cynical as me. You do know that ACAS (the one you speak to) is nothing but a call centre with scripts - they aren't legally trained at all?

But fine, I have given you my perspective so I will go and be "bitter" somewhere else.

Southend1

ACAS will advise on the law but is not there to stand up for employee rights. It's important to join a union to get this support.

red_machenka

I gathered ACAS was not a legal firm...due to the fact that they are free, usually suggests that your getting advice rather than a legal stand point.

Goodness me marybelle01... Thank you for your time.

I will get him to find out about the union, its not something I would have thought of.

Most of everyone' replies say to me exactly what his boss said to him "like it or lump it"... I do think it's awful that employees are treated so bad!