Jamie Oliver tells the truth!!!

wotsthat

richbeth wrote: »

And the ones that rise to the top are those preferred by their line managers out of those who give a monkeys about "career", are willing to put up with the office politics involved, are in the right place at the right time and don't wish to run their own business or go freelance.

All these things help but commonsense should tell you that there's generally a link between ability and working hard with career progression and wealth building.

ash28

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

I have no idea what type of work you do, but certainly for management structures in many/most customer facing organisations getting promoted gets harder the further up you go.

For example (and using nice round numbers to illustrate), for each 100 workers there might be 10 supervisors, 2 junior managers, and 1 senior manager. For every 10 senior managers, 1 regional manager, for every 10 regional managers, one national director, etc.

So there are no guarantees that the rewards will be there, unless at every step of your career you outperform all of your peers.

And the ones that rise to the top are the best of the best, and have had to repeatedly prove that at each step of their career.

So in that example for every ten thousand workers there can be only one national director, and if that director has worked his way up through the company he's had to be better than and/or work harder than thousands of other people to get there.

I suppose it's different for some professions of course... some organisations/careers have much flatter structures.

But there are a lot of careers where it's pretty much dog-eat-dog and you simply have to put in the hard work for years with only a 1/10 chance of making the next rung. What you're counting on is that most people will not.

So yes, I'll agree I'm well rewarded now, but there have never been any guarantees that would be the case.

Or you have to sh*t on people from a high height and be up your boss's backside to your elbow.

I've personally known a number of those.

It isn't always the best that get promoted by any means...some people don't get promoted because they are too good at what they do....I've known those too.

If you can talk a good story you can often go far too, and often ego can outweigh capabilitiy.

It isn't always by hard work and merit.

You need the right place at the right time and if stars align and the wind's in the right direction then you could be in a with a chance. Sometimes promotions defy belief.

I did reasonably well at work too, but I know a fair few who were as good or better than me who didn't. But I towed the company line, cultivated the right people, made the right noises as the right time.....and happened to do well in the assessments.

John1993_2

ash28 wrote: »

It isn't always by hard work and merit.

No, but hard work and ability are rarely going to work against you.

Results are always helpful, even if somme people get overlooked, or moved ahead, when others were more or less deserving.

J_i_m

ash28 wrote: »

It isn't always the best that get promoted by any means...some people don't get promoted because they are too good at what they do....I've known those too.

If you can talk a good story you can often go far too, and often ego can outweigh capabilitiy.

It isn't always by hard work and merit.

There does seem to be this culture of people being "Promoted up to their level of incompetence".

I've known many people who basically bullsh*t their way through work and piggy back of others. Unfortunately it's usually the decent hard worker who gets things done who is overlooked in favor of the egotistic bullsh*ter! You know the type The one who plays the office politics game to tread on the toes of others, whilst doing very little meaningful work of their own.

yorkshirekev

Loughton has the right idea. Get in and get out as quick as possible. The goal is to work to a comfortable and enjoyable retirement that is taken as soon as possible.

Everything else is just the build up to that.

the_flying_pig

John1993 wrote: »

No, but hard work and ability are rarely going to work against you.

Results are always helpful, even if somme people get overlooked, or moved ahead, when others were more or less deserving.

yeah, i'd agree with that.

in my experience promotion/rank is moderately strongly correlated with deservingness/ability to do those higher ranking jobs well.

there's far from a perfect correlation of course [heaps of people end up over- or underpromoted] but plain old merit is a heck of a step in the right direction.

Loughton_Monkey

yorkshirekev wrote: »

Loughton has the right idea. Get in and get out as quick as possible. The goal is to work to a comfortable and enjoyable retirement that is taken as soon as possible.

Everything else is just the build up to that.

Spot on....

I thought I'd just look at the pay hike for my 5 'defections'. In the order I moved on, the salary hikes were: 35.7%, 16.7%, 78.2%, 11.1%, 38.3%.

Best ever 'in house' pay rise was about 20%

John1993_2

the_flying_pig wrote: »

yeah, i'd agree with that.

in my experience promotion/rank is moderately strongly correlated with deservingness/ability to do those higher ranking jobs well.

there's far from a perfect correlation of course [heaps of people end up over- or underpromoted] but plain old merit is a heck of a step in the right direction.

I can't understand people who'll look at the undeserving cases, and think that the message is to stop trying.

Other people notice that sometimes effort fails, and respond with more effort. These people tend to do well.

Amara

custardy wrote: »

happens plenty here in Edinburgh
My last rented house was in a complex of small 'professional' lets
tiny flats. yet when the Poles et al came in they were living with many of them in one flat.
this is no anti pole post,I work with them and they are good guys
however I dont see them as better or worse than their UK co workers

Yes, it happens. But not so often to justify " they live ten in one place" sort of thinking . Property prices in Poland gone up last few years and certainly it's not possible save for a flat within three years working on minimum wage. Costs of living are not so much lower then here either. I bought lovely dress , 140PLN = £28 . I've could bought this dress here in a high street chain.

J_i_m

yorkshirekev wrote: »

Loughton has the right idea. Get in and get out as quick as possible. The goal is to work to a comfortable and enjoyable retirement that is taken as soon as possible.

Everything else is just the build up to that.

No, everyone is different and for many a balance has to struck.

Look, I have nothing against "workaholics" as long as it's done relatively safely.

But I live my life by "I work to live" not "I live to work".

We can never be sure of what will happen tomorrow, whilst it's wise to prepare for a comfortable retirement it shouldn't be at the complete expense of a life today as for all we know we may never live to reach retirement.

I plan to provide for my future by living within my means and saving some of my income. Yes, I'd do the odd bit of overtime but I do not see the sense in working excessively as I do not believe quality of life has a direct correlation to hours worked and money in the bank.

The way I see it, working excessive hours is more likely to harm my life and this in no way means that I have a poor work ethic.