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3 more years of 0.5% interest rates
Comments
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IMO, individuals make better investment decisions than governments.
Really?
Give punters easy credit what do they do with it?
A few individuals maybe.
Private health providers and insurers appear to be coming under some scrutiny with both appearing to blame the other for high costs. Applied across the whole population would this be a better and cheaper alternative to the one we already have.
Not sure why governments should need to take the risk with our money if they regulated institutions properly, removed limited liability and didn't keep pulling the strings for political reasons.
Investing it is fine but it could lead to real capital loss in the government fiasco of QE and interest rate manipulation outside the effective understanding of many. Perhaps that is part of the strategy taxation, devaluation, erosion of capital by inflation and now capital adjustment?"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »Really?grizzly1911 wrote: »Not sure why governments should need to take the risk with our money if they regulated institutions properly, removed limited liability and didn't keep pulling the strings for political reasons.
You've answered your own incredulity.
Individuals when investing think first and foremost about the return. Politicians have a whole host of other reasons that interfere with this basic premise and that will never change.
Political interference comes with a cost attached and, in the case of the NHS, it's paid for by taxpayers.0 -
You've answered your own incredulity.
Individuals when investing think first and foremost about the return. Politicians have a whole host of other reasons that interfere with this basic premise and that will never change.
Political interference comes with a cost attached and, in the case of the NHS, it's paid for by taxpayers.
Who would pay for aprivate healthcare system. Who would pay for a healthcare system for those that couldn't pay.
Individuals do look at the return but in doing so expose themselves to risk that they are not in a position to quantify, understand, or mitigate, for the many. If people were so bright why did we have a PPI miss selling scandal, credit card fraud protection insurance etc.
I agree that many politicians do meddle and don't have aclue what they are doing, even worse when they do it for own self interest but that last point is no different to free market enterprise. Entrepreneurs with a love of their business may well provide a quality service at a price big bloated corporates with limited liability are not the panacea they would like us to believe in many cases especially life "critical" suppliers."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »Who would pay for aprivate healthcare system. Who would pay for a healthcare system for those that couldn't pay.
The same people that pay now. It's largely a matter of opinion whether the private sector could run the health service better with the taxpayer providing a top up for those that can't pay.grizzly1911 wrote: »Individuals do look at the return but in doing so expose themselves to risk that they are not in a position to quantify, understand, or mitigate, for the many. If people were so bright why did we have a PPI miss selling scandal, credit card fraud protection insurance etc..
So let's just assume that everyone is stupid and run to the arms of our saviours the politicians?grizzly1911 wrote: »I agree that many politicians do meddle and don't have aclue what they are doing, even worse when they do it for own self interest but that last point is no different to free market enterprise. Entrepreneurs with a love of their business may well provide a quality service at a price big bloated corporates with limited liability are not the panacea they would like us to believe in many cases especially life "critical" suppliers.
Not saying it's a panacea and we'll never see sensible debate anyway. Just look at the adjective used to describe commercial enterprises - 'bloated' - does that describe the company you work for? It doesn't mine.0 -
The same people that pay now. It's largely a matter of opinion whether the private sector could run the health service better with the taxpayer providing a top up for those that can't pay.
So let's just assume that everyone is stupid and run to the arms of our saviours the politicians?
Not saying it's a panacea and we'll never see sensible debate anyway. Just look at the adjective used to describe commercial enterprises - 'bloated' - does that describe the company you work for? It doesn't mine.
I made the specific point that not everyone is stupid but if you need to regulate the hell out of a business to make it ethical and do it's job properly in a trustworthy manner then it beggars whether it isn't just a government department with a differernt name. More so when it is effectively "Guaranteed" by the state or funded by it.
Southern Cross a couple of years ago had to be bailed out after being run by accountants and speculators, once again the residential/health care sector is in the mire.
How many does your employer employ? Is it a multinational? What is the differential between boardroom pay and the general workforce?
We are told that private energy and utility companies provide much needed investment that couldn't be provided by state owned establishments. How do they do that? -charge more for the product to cover their costs add 5% ish to cover the dividend job done hardly rocket science (yes I do know there is more to it than that). Who provides the investment funds?"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »I made the specific point that not everyone is stupid but if you need to regulate the hell out of a business to make it ethical and do it's job properly in a trustworthy manner then it beggars whether it isn't just a government department with a differernt name. More so when it is effectively "Guaranteed" by the state or funded by it.
Southern Cross a couple of years ago had to be bailed out after being run by accountants and speculators, once again the residential/health care sector is in the mire.
How many does your employer employ? Is it a multinational? What is the differential between boardroom pay and the general workforce?
Who bailed out Southern Cross?
How much did they pour in?0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »I made the specific point that not everyone is stupid but if you need to regulate the hell out of a business to make it ethical and do it's job properly in a trustworthy manner then it beggars whether it isn't just a government department with a differernt name. More so when it is effectively "Guaranteed" by the state or funded by it.
Southern Cross a couple of years ago had to be bailed out after being run by accountants and speculators, once again the residential/health care sector is in the mire.
How many does your employer employ? Is it a multinational? What is the differential between boardroom pay and the general workforce?
We are told that private energy and utility companies provide much needed investment that couldn't be provided by state owned establishments. How do they do that? -charge more for the product to cover their costs add 5% ish to cover the dividend job done hardly rocket science (yes I do know there is more to it than that). Who provides the investment funds?
Again you're starting with the basic premise that businesses are inherently unethical and untrustworthy. There's a place for regulation to ensure basic ethical requirements but the key is to ensure competition. If, say, a healthcare provider is unethical, untrustworthy and, by you're reckoning, more expensive because of grabbing shareholders why would anyone choose to use it?
It doesn't matter if the company is small, large or, heaven forbid, a multinational.
The consumer paying for future investment and profit is a far from new concept. How do you think Coke get the money to build new bottling plants, or Toyota to run an R&D department? Why are utilities or healthcare different?0 -
Again you're starting with the basic premise that businesses are inherently unethical and untrustworthy. There's a place for regulation to ensure basic ethical requirements but the key is to ensure competition. If, say, a healthcare provider is unethical, untrustworthy and, by you're reckoning, more expensive because of grabbing shareholders why would anyone choose to use it?
It doesn't matter if the company is small, large or, heaven forbid, a multinational.
The consumer paying for future investment and profit is a far from new concept. How do you think Coke get the money to build new bottling plants, or Toyota to run an R&D department? Why are utilities or healthcare different?
If you don't know the difference between basic needs/luxuries or water /coke then there is little point continuing.
Healthcare was merely an example.
What are businesses in business for? Let me know when you find an altruistic one."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »If you don't know the difference between basic needs/luxuries or water /coke then there is little point continuing.
Healthcare was merely an example.
What are businesses in business for? Let me know when you find an altruistic one.
businesses aren't in business for anything
businesses are made up of people
plc are staffed essentially by employees who are paid to do a job.
some businesses are run by their owner(s)
employees are paid to do a job.
the vast majority of people work to make money for themselves and their families whether employees or owners.
people employed by the state also work for money in the same way as any other employees.
I don't take the view that that makes all people unethical
Doubtless some people are unethical and some aren't.
There is a difference of view about what people consider ethical.
I, for example, see nothing ethical about being forced to fund the BBC when I don't watch it. To my mind ALL employees are unethical but I understand that others might disagree.
Private businesses must make a profit or go bankrupt. State enterprises simply raise taxes or monopoly pricing.0 -
May be people are working just as hard as they did in 2005 but the value of their output (in banking, law, accountancy, consultancy, hedge fund managment) is now judged to be much lower?
Or people found leveraging up with debt far easier and more profitable than working longer hours in the wider economy.0
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