Using lyrics in competition entries

desel

This is my first post in the chat corner - hope it is the right place for this!

With the skill competitions, I have avoided using songs etc as a basis for my entries as I thought it would infringe copyright etc... But just noticed that one of the Wickes/Telegraph kitchen winners did this - does anyone know if it is ok to use them/or have used them in the past?

Thanks

Zanzib

Technically using song lyrics without permission and paying a fee, or getting written permission to use them, in print, is copyright infringement.

Unless the song has gone out of copyright- think music is only 50 years.

Blulu

Though, I would be amazed if this were ever an issue re comping. Perhaps if you copied pretty much the whole song, but using an odd line or two, or a song title, is very unlikely to get you into grief.

It's so common to see/hear songs quoted all over the place, including on TV in situations where they can't be expected to have got permission.

You just have to think about how often stand-up comics quote from songs. We went to a comedy club on Tuesday and one of them went through the entire lyric of Tom Jones' She's a Lady - ridiculing it line by line. I'm sure that broke copyright laws. I also remember one comedian on TV (Ed Byrne, I think) slated Alanis Morissette's Ironic, because the only thing that is ironic about the song is that it is called Ironic, but written by someone who doesn't get what irony is.

Of course they might've got permission, but as they were seriously slating both songs, I somehow doubt it.

As the song says, don't worry, be happy

Blu X

Zanzib

Please accept what I'm saying above is fact- I'm a writer. I have to know stuff like this to protect myself.

There's no copyright on song titles.

It's quite possible that a lesser known singer/group wouldn't mind, but please don't use lyrics from very well known 'names' they are quite protective about use.

Even using one line can be chargeable- and that can be hundreds of pounds from some artists...

There would be nothing to protect the winner/company running the competition from being liable to pay the fee, if the lyrics appear in print or audio- unless they have the appropriate licence.

TV stations will have obtained general licences from the performing rights society.

Comedy is different again.

So anyone using lyrics in a competition please be careful.

Blulu

Zanzib, I wasn't disagreeing with you about the facts. I'm just applying a bit of human experience. I've used song lines OMG, soooo many times in captions and things. And there is no real difference in writing comedy than anything else. It is still a public performance.

I can remember winning a caption comp with, "Now she HAS got more rabbit than Sainsbury's".

So I'm not saying I know better than you about the law, I'm just saying that in practice in my experience and from what I've observed - as the OP mentioned too - people do quote the odd line from a song lyric, with seemingly no problems. It happens in this forum loads. Some even have song lyrics in their siggys.

Your advice is sound, I'm sure. I'm just saying that in application, I have never found this to be a problem - at least not yet.

Zanzib

I understand what you're saying Blulu, and hopefully no comper will ever have this problem.

I'd hate for any comper to fall foul of this issue.

jeddentad

Blulu wrote: »

I can remember winning a caption comp with, "Now she HAS got more rabbit than Sainsbury's".

I don't know that particular song, but I assume that's a take off on the lyric?

Would that not come under fair use by way of parody?

Zanzib

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/c-essential.pdf

According to the Intellectual Property Office music lyrics are protected as literary work, so the life of the writer plus 70 years copyright applies.

(The 50 years is the actual first performance)

Fair use is a grey area if it goes beyond review/criticism...

If the competition terms and conditions state that you're agreeing your entry is legal, then that would absolve the company of liability in the event of a court case.

It may seem over the top, but some musicians/songwriters are very protective of their rights, and who their songs are connected with...

I'm not a lawyer, this is just my understanding of the basics. And from the experiences of writers I know, or am aware off, who have had problems from using lyrics without permission...

So using any copyright lyrics in a competition entry should be considered carefully.

desel

Thanks for the responses - I think I will avoid songs for future comps!