Natwest and Charging order

Mart2013

Hello, My first post.

I had an overdraft facility with Natwest of £1000, some 3 years ago they stopped sending me statements. I was very close to the limit of my account and then I received a letter saying I had exceeded it by £47 because of charges etc.

Before I continue could I just mention that the last 3 years have been a total nightmare for me. With financial issues, then an awful lengthy expensive divorce and in the meantime my mother becoming very ill and spending most of the time in hospital where she died this Easter. Much more to it than that but you get the picture?

So in 2010 I contacted my bank to ask why they had stopped sending me statements. They told me I had requested to go paperless (I hadn't) I asked them to start sending me statements again (they never did) With so much going on i would forget about it for a while and I would receive the occasional letter from the bank telling me I was over my limit (at first by £47) later letters didnt mention the amount just that I was over the agreed limit. Again I received no statements from the bank. This went on until December 2012 when I recieved a letter saying I now owed them £5500 then in January of this year a letter saying I know owed them £6000. These were followed up with solicitors letters threatening court action. In April of this year I got a letter stating they were starting court action, my Mum had just died and I put it the letter to one side and waited to see if a claim form arrived (it didn't) In May I received a letter from the solicitors stating they had obtained a CCJ against me. I thought this must have been an error as I had nothing from the court. A few days later I received a Judgment from the court against me for £6200!

A month or so later I have recieved a copy of the interim charging order, and form N379 and a date for the hearing in the first week of September. I really do not know what to do? I assume I need to contact Citizens advice? I have spent over £20k with solicitors over the past 2 years and even though I am back on my feet financially I cant afford to spend a load more for legal advice.

Had I received the claim form I would have attended court myself as I am sure the fact that Natwest has increased a £1000 debt to £6000 in 3 years is unjust. And I would have had no issue with paying the original debt plus reasonable interest or penalty charges......I have been to court twice within the last year (once for my van finance and again for mortgage arrears) and both times an arrangement was made that I not only kept to but paid off early.

Any advice please?

Regards
Martin

happy_bunny_2

Ideas, I'm no expert on this.

You could complain to your bank, but unlikely to get anything without hard evidence.

You could apply to get the CCJ set aside on what you said above. No expert here and things I read on here even sending the papers signed for to the creditor and them not giving them to the court isn't good enough.

Maybe call Stepchange, payplan or CAB.

fatbelly

Hi. Welcome to the dfw forum, shame you have to post in these circumstances.

It would be a good idea to read:

Factsheet | Charging orders in the county court

Please don't spend anything on solicitors in trying to defend this. By all means chat to the CAB - you may find they run a court desk at your local court.

However, you need to know that, as the factsheet says, 'In practice, it can be very difficult to persuade the court not to make the charging order final.'

There are a couple of oddities here and you should attend the hearing. It always impresses the judge to have the defendant attend and it gives them the opportunity to talk to you. Without you, it's just a rubber stamping exercise.

You need to know:

Where they sent the claim form

How a 1k debt became a 6k debt.

Their rep should be able to explain this.

But don't panic about this - in most cases the debt just sits there until you sell the house. I take it that the debt is solely yours - is the house jointly owned?

Mart2013

Hi again, thank you for the replies. I am sorry I didnt get back on here to update you before now....life is hectic at the moment.

I spoke to the CAB and even managed to have a quick chat with a solicitor (friend of a friend) and got some good advice....pretty much the same as above. Anyway I downloaded form N244 filled it in and turned up at the court office to hand it over. I was told that I needed to 1. Explain that I hadnt received the court papers and that otherwise I would have attended etc. 2. Explain that I have an adequate defence in relation to the claim. I think I did this ok as they gave me a notice of hearing application that takes place just before the Charging order hearing.

I assume the judge will ask for an outline of my defence before he decides whether to set the ccj aside? I intend to mention the lack of statements and the fact that a £1000 debt has become a £6000 debt solely due to excessive charges and interest etc etc.

Any further tips would be very welcome! I am very nervous about it all mainly because I really do no want to find myself in front of one of the judges from my divorce....long story. Funnily enough I asked the office staff which judge it might be (they didnt know) and when I mentioned this particular judge they both laughed and rolled their eyes, one of them said fingers crossed its not him.

Thanks again

ilovelondontown

I'm sorry to hear that you've had so much on your plate, it can't be easy when you feel like the world is giving you everythign to deal with and then to find the strenght and care to keep on top of the day-to-day matters.

I don't have any advice directly from the matter of the CCJ, however I do feel you need to acknowledge responsibilty for allowing the situation to get this far. It sounds like you've dug your head in the sand and hoped it wouldn't become something you needed to face up to - by your own admission you had a lot of letters from the bank informing you of the situation, so I highly doubt the lack of statements will stand in your defence.

Unfortunately death and divorce and then some are things everybody has to deal with, including the people that work at the bank, the court and even the CAB. When you take out a financial agreement, you agree to be reponsible for it.

Even admitting you were not in a position to pay things or you needed some support would have helped and showed a sense of responsiblity, the bank could put a hold on your account, stopped interest building up and stopped you potentially facing a judge you'd rather avoid.

I truly hope that the matter is resolved in the best way it can be in the circumstances, but being proactive and willing to fix this will be the best way forward, rather than avoiding the matter and finding away "out" and to learn the lesson that avoiding your financial responsiblities is never a winning game.

sourcrates

Sorry, but how can a grand turn into six grand ? you must have a case here for unfair charges and interest surely, it does not seem reasonable to me that the debt can get that high unless they were charging mega interest, I would certainly challenge the amount you owe and get them to justify it in court, I`d love to be there to see a breakdown of how they arrived at that figure, I wish you the best of luck with it my friend.

happy_bunny_2

Take evidence of any screw ups from bank you mention including a date ordered bullet point list of events and communication.

Disputing the balance can't do you any harm.

Mart2013

Hi, I went to court yesterday. Before the hearing I spoke to the other sides solicitor and it turned out they were not aware of my application to set the judgement aside. We went in to see the judge and eventually both hearings were adjourned for at least a month. I suppose this gives me time to try and reach an agreement with the claimant in the meantime? The judge seemed to acknowledge my concerns re the massive charges on the account. He did say that any offer on the day I would have to have the funds ready there and then to pay to the claimant.

I will keep you informed what happens in the meantime

Mart2013

ilovelondontown wrote: »

however I do feel you need to acknowledge responsibilty for allowing the situation to get this far. It sounds like you've dug your head in the sand and hoped it wouldn't become something you needed to face up to - by your own admission you had a lot of letters from the bank informing you of the situation, so I highly doubt the lack of statements will stand in your defence.

Unfortunately death and divorce and then some are things everybody has to deal with, including the people that work at the bank, the court and even the CAB. When you take out a financial agreement, you agree to be reponsible for it.

Even admitting you were not in a position to pay things or you needed some support would have helped and showed a sense of responsiblity, the bank could put a hold on your account, stopped interest building up and stopped you potentially facing a judge you'd rather avoid.

I truly hope that the matter is resolved in the best way it can be in the circumstances, but being proactive and willing to fix this will be the best way forward, rather than avoiding the matter and finding away "out" and to learn the lesson that avoiding your financial responsiblities is never a winning game.

I appreciate what you are saying, yes In the end I did kind of bury my head in the sand....to me at the time I simply couldnt see another way out.

Obviously I have only given the briefest of descriptions of the circumstances and I dont intend to give my full "sob story" but I will say that I used credit carefully and always paid back what I owed, I had an excellent credit rating and shopped around for the best deals etc long before I had even heard of moneysavingexpert. I had a self cert mortgage and would change to better deals when it made financial sense to do so. Additionally whenever I would change to a new deal I would get it over a shorter term (even though the payment would increase) as I was obsessed with getting the house paid for asap. I never owed more than 50% of what the house was worth and spent little on myself. In the same period I bought and paid for a large mpv for the wife and numerous items for the house.

A little further down the line the house needed work and I spent over £20k improving the place, this was 6 months or so before the current mortgage deal came to an end. As I had credit cards with high limits on very low %apr that I hadnt really used I decided I would use them to do the work and transfer the balances to the next new mortgage in 6 months time. You know where this is going?? Yes sure enough by the time 6 months had gone by self cert mortgages had all but dried up and then the card with very low apr % suddenly became 30% or whatever. I was paying a fortune out each month with the balance hardly reducing and then eventually missing payments etc. It then snowballed. My income took a small dive which made things even worse and then divorce and £20k in solicitors bills etc. Of course she took the car that was still worth £10k or so and just about all the furniture from the house. I had paid every single bill for the house over the years and before that it had been my parent house. We were only married for a year before it went wrong but she recieved 75% of the equity in the house (its for sale) By the time its sold and I pay my debts off I will come out with just about nothing. I know thats life and I accept it (fresh start and all that) If it wasnt for how things turned out re the mortgage situation then the debt I have would now be on my mortgage at a low rate and would hardly make that much of a difference to the monthly payment.

I used to look down at people I knew who were remortgaging to buy luxury items (porsches and suchlike) simply because the value of their house had an increased. I kind of wish I had done the same as I wouldnt be any worse of now and at least I would have had a load of fun!

Mart2013

Hi, the court hearing is set for next Wednesday where it will be decided if the CCJ will be set aside. As you know if I am successful it will just mean the whole process starts over.

However having just spoken to the "other side" they seem quite keen to settle the matter before then and have talked about a settlement in the region of 50% of the £6000 they say I owe. Plus the ability to pay off that amount monthly over up to 2 years. I had originally decided I would (in court) offer in the region of £1500 to £2000 to settle the debt. However I believe if that was accepted i would have to pay it there and then?

As I said "they" dont seem to really want to go to court and that makes me wonder what would be an acceptable figure to them to have it over and done with. The original debt was just over £1000 and it has increased to over £6000 because of bank charges and court fees etc.

So in a nutshell...do I tough it out and go to court, or make a lower offer than the 50% they want, or do i take whats on the table? My feeling is to make a counter offer in the region of £2000 ??

I would be so grateful for any advice right now. Thanks

happy_bunny_2

Probably as they realised that 5k if charges may get thrown out.