CIMA/AAT - help would be appreciated.

NickJW

Hello all

I'm hoping that I will be able to get some advice as to what to do in my current situation.

I've been at my current job for 10 years (since I was 20), and in those years I've been trained up (my company is quite good for that), in basic marketing, recruitment, and for the past year finance.

In the finance position I'm presenting using Dream/CODA for sales and purchase invoice entries and refunds. I also submit and review profit comparison reviews for certain areas of the business and look into ways to reduce costs and increase profits (which I guess is probably more statistical rather than accounts based work). In addition, I negotiate with suppliers and pay freelancers.

My company appears to be pleased with my performance, and has recommended that I pursue training (which they will either fully or partially fund - I haven't had confirmation yet).

Anyway - initially I looked at AAT - and conducted their Skills Check online - I passed the Personal/office skills, IT Skills, Costing and Financial Transactions sections, but failed the Double Entry Book Keeping section. As a result AAT recommended that I start at Level 2 rather than fast track to Level 3.

My Finance manager did the same test when I informed her and she said that the Double Entry Book keeping scenarios couldn't happen using our accounts program (CODA), and also failed that section. She's been a Financial Controller for 25+ yrs.

She then advised me to look into CIMA...the problem I envisage with this is that it requires me to provide 2 A levels, and 5 GCSEs, both of which I did bad at. I gained 2 B's, 5 C's and 2 D's at GCSE - C in Maths and English, and *ahem* B in General Studies, C in Business Studies and E in Geography. I have to find where they are, and get them signed off by my manager.

I don't think I'm stupid. I did get into Grammar school at the start - my problem in school days were that I didn't apply myself hard enough, and as a result of this, I have to live with the consequences of poor exam results.

I do wonder whether CIMA could be too advanced for me, but my manager says he can see me being a management accountant in the future. AAT (correct me if I'm wrong), could be a waste of time for part of the years course at Level 2, since I will be retracing work already completed at work. I guess that you can't complete one module before moving to Level 3 if the Skills Check indicates that you're competent in certain areas?

I checked into ACCA and don't feel that this is the route I want to go into.

I apologize in advance for the long post, but I'm struggling to decide what do do.

AP007

NickJW wrote: »

My Finance manager did the same test when I informed her and she said that the Double Entry Book keeping scenarios couldn't happen using our accounts program (CODA), and also failed that section. She's been a Financial Controller for 25+ yrs.




.

They failed too? Really? I have done that online assessment and I passed to level 3 (advising me to start there) but I already have 3 & 4. Just did it to keep my mind working

You need to know how to do double entry and even if the system you use only posts the debit entry to the chart of accounts say for the purchase ledger the credits must be applied automatically to the supplier or customer account you are posting too (in CODA? never used CODA so don't know)

On a system such as Agresso you have to post both lines - the debit and the credit. It is wise to get lots of system knowledge so you have experience on systems that require both line entries for invoice etc.

Surely when you post journals or adjustments you have to have knowledge of double entry?

If you want to be an accountant I'd say AAT is not where you want to go at all by the way.

Kayalana99

Im doing AAT level 2 now, supposed to be doing it with kaplan which you can do at home but I realised they charge you £120 per module or something then £50 an exam...but they will sell you the book for £20 and still let you sit the exam with them...so guess I am doing it the cheap way.

Only you can decide what you want to do really but if you do the AAT level 2 at home, you could get it done pretty fast (and pretty cheap if you do it my way their are 5 modules to level 2)

NickJW

AP007 wrote: »

They failed too? Really? I have done that online assessment and I passed to level 3 (advising me to start there) but I already have 3 & 4. Just did it to keep my mind working

You need to know how to do double entry and even if the system you use only posts the debit entry to the chart of accounts say for the purchase ledger the credits must be applied automatically to the supplier or customer account you are posting too (in CODA? never used CODA so don't know)

On a system such as Agresso you have to post both lines - the debit and the credit. It is wise to get lots of system knowledge so you have experience on systems that require both line entries for invoice etc.

Surely when you post journals or adjustments you have to have knowledge of double entry?

If you want to be an accountant I'd say AAT is not where you want to go at all by the way.

Hi AP007

Thank you for your reply. Yes - she failed also, on questions indicating Discounts Allowed and Discounts Received, which are not terms we use.

I apologize - CODA is what my business calls it since that's what it used to be called but now it's Unit4/Agresso - is this what you use?

Maybe it was the wording of the questions which resulted in me failing it? I know for instance when entering a Purchase invoice, the total invoice value appears as a debit, then the credits appear for the VAT nominal, and the remaining balance is submitted to the relevant nominal (property, rent, maintenance etc) to ensure the balance is zero before it can successfully be submitted.

Journal Entries are submitted when a payment is made, and the items can only be allocated if the balances are matched, and my finance manager then reconciles against the bank account.

Based on my current knowledge do you think I'm aiming too high for CIMA?

NickJW

Kayalana99 wrote: »

Im doing AAT level 2 now, supposed to be doing it with kaplan which you can do at home but I realised they charge you £120 per module or something then £50 an exam...but they will sell you the book for £20 and still let you sit the exam with them...so guess I am doing it the cheap way.

Only you can decide what you want to do really but if you do the AAT level 2 at home, you could get it done pretty fast (and pretty cheap if you do it my way their are 5 modules to level 2)

Oh - that's interesting (and food for thought). I could potentially do home schooled lessons for the first 5 modules and take a classroom based class for the final lesson if required.

Scorpio33

AAT = qualification you get if you want to be a book keeper

CIMA = qualification you get if you want to be a management accountant.

I would say CIMA is harder than AAT, but worth it in the end. Are you aiming to high with CIMA? There is only one way to find out and that is to study it.

saintjammyswine

If it helps you may be able to get funding for AAT through your local FE College which may not be available for CIMA. Moneysaving and all!

NickJW

Scorpio33 wrote: »

AAT = qualification you get if you want to be a book keeper

CIMA = qualification you get if you want to be a management accountant.

I would say CIMA is harder than AAT, but worth it in the end. Are you aiming to high with CIMA? There is only one way to find out and that is to study it.

Thanks - The main 2 reasons I'm concerned is for the following reasons:

1. My poor A Level results may affect me being accepted, and my only accountancy based skills are work based. Do most people entering CIMA come from a more advanced degree based level.

2. My accounts skills are quite 'basic' at the moment.

I would ideally like to move into forecasting and stay in my current company - I do enjoy analysing and comparing data.

I am happy to work hard, but I don't want to disappoint my company (if they are paying), and find out that that it's beyond my reach.

AP007

NickJW wrote: »

Hi AP007

Thank you for your reply. Yes - she failed also, on questions indicating Discounts Allowed and Discounts Received, which are not terms we use.

I apologize - CODA is what my business calls it since that's what it used to be called but now it's Unit4/Agresso - is this what you use?

Maybe it was the wording of the questions which resulted in me failing it? I know for instance when entering a Purchase invoice, the total invoice value appears as a debit, then the credits appear for the VAT nominal, and the remaining balance is submitted to the relevant nominal (property, rent, maintenance etc) to ensure the balance is zero before it can successfully be submitted.

Journal Entries are submitted when a payment is made, and the items can only be allocated if the balances are matched, and my finance manager then reconciles against the bank account.

Based on my current knowledge do you think I'm aiming too high for CIMA?

You have never posted a discount? Oh ok.

No a purchase ledger invoice is a credit (a -) to the Purchase Ledger control account that's why its called an aged creditors report you run each month to rec the supplier statements too.

Sales invoices from your company to customers are debits (a +) and its an aged debtors report that relates to them.

Purchase Invoice totals are credits and the nominal/general ledger charges and VAT etc are debits.

No CODA is a system (Unit4 Software) and Agresso is something different. I used Agresso 5.4

So you don't have a automatic payment system on CODA? As in you run a payment proposal and when all is ok and posted the debit )the payment) gets automatically posted the PL control account and automatically matched as per the payment proposal. I have not done manual posting for payments ever unless it was a cheque payment.

When is payment is made for an invoice either (BACS or chq etc) the double entry posting is as follows
Debit the PL control
Credit the bank account

The debit matches off the credit entry which is the invoice.

this is maybe why you failed the double entry section?

NickJW

AP007 wrote: »

You have never posted a discount? Oh ok.

No a purchase ledger invoice is a credit (a -) to the Purchase Ledger control account that's why its called an aged creditors report you run each month to rec the supplier statements too.

Sales invoices from your company to customers are debits (a +) and its an aged debtors report that relates to them.

Purchase Invoice totals are credits and the nominal/general ledger charges and VAT etc are debits.

No CODA is a system (Unit4 Software) and Agresso is something different. I used Agresso 5.4

So you don't have a automatic payment system on CODA? As in you run a payment proposal and when all is ok and posted the debit )the payment) gets automatically posted the PL control account and automatically matched as per the payment proposal. I have not done manual posting for payments ever unless it was a cheque payment.

Yes - you're right. I do obviously need to work on my skills more, but what you've posted matches to what I do.

A lot of payments are unfortunately manual, using DREAM 3.2, but hopefully upgrading soon The payment goes from our bank, and then Journal entries need submitting to allocate the payment against the invoice. We have a lot of USD/EUR invoices, so PINV always converted to GBP on our system based on a monthly conversion rate. Journal payment entries are entered in the Currency, and then a exchange rate gain/loss Journal to balance/allocate the item.

BACS bulk lists are less time consuming, but still don't automatically allocate towards the bank.

Only when the bank is reconciled against CODA can it be seen if entries match.

I would like to think that I could do CIMA, but based on a simple failing there, I think it may be best to investigate other options first, and potentially progress into it. AAT could hopefully provide an exemption towards CIMA as my skills improve.

Many, many thanks for your assistance.

AP007

NickJW wrote: »

Yes - you're right. I do obviously need to work on my skills more, but what you've posted matches to what I do.

A lot of payments are unfortunately manual, using DREAM 3.2, but hopefully upgrading soon The payment goes from our bank, and then Journal entries need submitting to allocate the payment against the invoice. We have a lot of USD/EUR invoices, so PINV always converted to GBP on our system based on a monthly conversion rate. Journal payment entries are entered in the Currency, and then a exchange rate gain/loss Journal to balance/allocate the item.

BACS bulk lists are less time consuming, but still don't automatically allocate towards the bank.

Only when the bank is reconciled against CODA can it be seen if entries match.

I would like to think that I could do CIMA, but based on a simple failing there, I think it may be best to investigate other options first, and potentially progress into it. AAT could hopefully provide an exemption towards CIMA as my skills improve.

Many, many thanks for your assistance.

I had to do the conversion from USD and Euro to GBP manually with the rate from the bank. No system to do that for me when the payment cleared. All our EUROs etc were internet banking as one off batches etc not like a full BACS run

Your system seems very long winded indeed and very old fashioned.

Agresso would post the credit to the bank control account as soon as the BACS was posted and updated and the weekly returns (sale ledger team) would rec the bank account.

I think you may need to get more systems knowledge and could only do if you more to another accounts role in another company using different software and more experience and understanding in double entry.

I have 20 years in purchase ledger and have used 9 different systems.

Maybe AAT would be a good start and you can do level 2 and see how you get on.