Commuting expenses are not deductible?

andreauk2009

Ok, it's seems pretty much black and white that commuting costs are not deductible while being an employee.

But lets say I have a regular job, and post office hour I go to visit a customer to discuss and coordinate about how to evolve and progress the project. Shouldn't in this situation the cost of commuting be split and partially considered as a deductible "business cost"?

Let me explain with an example.

A) is my home
is my office
C) is my customer place

A to B cannot be deducted
B to C can

But clearly once I finished with C and need to go back to A, I am effectively going back home from after a consultancy, but at the same time I'm going back home because in the morning I left for the regular job.

To be fair, half of the trip should be accountable for deduction, but I'm not that sure this is the case.

Can somebody advice?

Thanks
Andrea

DUTR

andreauk2009 wrote: »

Ok, it's seems pretty much black and white that commuting costs are not deductible while being an employee.

But lets say I have a regular job, and post office hour I go to visit a customer to discuss and coordinate about how to evolve and progress the project. Shouldn't in this situation the cost of commuting be split and partially considered as a deductible "business cost"?

Let me explain with an example.

A) is my home
is my office
C) is my customer place

A to B cannot be deducted
B to C can

But clearly once I finished with C and need to go back to A, I am effectively going back home from after a consultancy, but at the same time I'm going back home because in the morning I left for the regular job.

To be fair, half of the trip should be accountable for deduction, but I'm not that sure this is the case.

Can somebody advice?

Thanks
Andrea

You perhaps don't have the full idea, B-C would have to create extra travelling
Example Joe's usual commute is 6 miles, he is required to work from another office 15 miles away, Joe maybe able to claim travel for 15-6=9 miles.
In your case if C happens to be on your way home or similar, then there is no claim.

zygurat789

DUTR wrote: »

You perhaps don't have the full idea, B-C would have to create extra travelling
Example Joe's usual commute is 6 miles, he is required to work from another office 15 miles away, Joe maybe able to claim travel for 15-6=9 miles.
In your case if C happens to be on your way home or similar, then there is no claim.[/QUOTE]

I don't think anybody mentioned the method of travel, so
If C is between B and A and breaking the journey involves additional cost then the additional would be a claimable expense.

DUTR

zygurat789 wrote: »

DUTR wrote: »

You perhaps don't have the full idea, B-C would have to create extra travelling
Example Joe's usual commute is 6 miles, he is required to work from another office 15 miles away, Joe maybe able to claim travel for 15-6=9 miles.
In your case if C happens to be on your way home or similar, then there is no claim.[/QUOTE]

I don't think anybody mentioned the method of travel, so
If C is between B and A and breaking the journey involves additional cost then the additional would be a claimable expense.

Well yes, upon the way the OP described and I read, I assumed that C happened to be between A and B (ACB)
As I understand and I have completed a few P87, the OP would be completing that form from a P11 mileage statement. And the employer would have an allowance for travel which would include extra miles.

Dal_Whinnie

travel expenses are not always as simple as they seem. The legislation basically allows a deduction where the employee is required to undertake that travel and pays for it (clearly, where the employer pays for it then the employee cannot claim a deduction).

In the example quoted by OT then the questions I would ask are:

1. Is the employer covering the cost?
2. How long are you spending at C?
3. Is the visit to C effectively dropping something off on the way home (in which case it would not qualify) or are you having to go there to undertake various tasks and these will take a reasonable period of time, can only be undertaken at C, etc. If yes, then you should be able to claim both B - C and C - A (travel from a temporary workplace to home)

I don't think it matters where C is in relation to B and A but if it is between A and B then it may be more dificult to justify that you haven't put in the visit just to convert a normal commute into a business journey.

There is plenty of advice on HMRC website and this subject has been covered on other threads on here.

andreauk2009

thanks guys for the information. That said ... I wasn't even considering the employers to pay for this, because the additional travel - if necessary - will because of my private consulting.

So my point being was can I claim the additional travel as a Personal Business expense?

As for the breaking the travel consideration. Well C may be far well in between A and B ... however, in case of a London Underground or London Bus, everytime you get off a service and jump on again, this costs money, and as of now I don't have a 1-6 travelcard, but just a railcard. So I assume that at very least I can claim the additional bus or underground, but I won't be able ever to claim rail costs because that is need for my daily commuting.

Is this correct?


And actually, I'm quite curios now about the P87 ... aren't normally employer suppose to refund expenses if these are because of a company mission?
So what's the point of a P87. Sorry for the ignorance, but I'm fairly new to the UK laws.

Thanks.

prowla

As I understand it, you are an employee with a job, and are also doing separate private work which is not for (or even known about) by your employer.

If that is the case then think of them as separate jobs.

If I were doing that, then I would be inclined to set the (return) trip to the private appointment against my private company, and then the onward journey to my employment as personal.

zygurat789

As far as the self employed are concerned the legislation says that any expense which is wholly and exclusively incurred in earning the sales may be charges against the profit.
Expenditure from home to normal place of work and from normal place of work to home is not allowable.
So the cost of travel from home to normal place of work is normally incurred and is not allowable, any additional cost incurred in visiting a client will be an allowable expense

00ec25

the P87 deals with the situation where an employer does not pay its employee the full cost of expenses incurred by the employee, for example, the employer uses a mileage rate below the HMRC approved value. The P87 allows the employee to claim back the tax (not the full cost) on the difference. The P87 is therefore for use by employees

in the context of your question you are not an employee as the extra travel is related wholly and exclusively to your private work, it would have helped if you had mentioned that at the beginning!

At the moment travel to or from C has nothing to do with your commute. The only reason you visit C is in connection with your self employed business. Therefore all costs of travel from a – c, b – c or c – a or c- b are business costs against your self employed income. You do not claim these via a P87, the costs are simply costs against your taxable profit and so go into your accounts and thus reduce your self employed profit.

Obviously the costs have to be real and actually expended – ie if/when you get a Zone 1-6 travelcard then if that card covers both A – B and A – C your business cannot claim any of the cost as the travelcard represents your daily commuting costs so cannot be claimed. When you visit C using your travelcard your business does not incur an actual cost which is wholly and exclusively related to the self employment consultancy, ie the travel is mixed use since the cost includes your daily commute.

BTW - I trust you have registered your self employed business with HMRC (this must be done within 3 months of it starting)

andreauk2009

Thanks for the comprehensive answer 00ec25.

I didn't registered for Self employment so far.

I'm currently scouting all the info, but I didn't invoice a penny. I would imagine this is what HMRC really is interested into.

On this regards, can expenses I did today for setting up the "business" be claimed tomorrow when I am registered? I assume there is a 3 months window even for this. Am I correct?

antrobus

andreauk2009 wrote: »

.... I assume there is a 3 months window even for this. Am I correct?

There is no '3 months window' any more. HMRC once used to fine people £100 for failing to register for NI within 3 months of starting business, but that stopped in 2010. These days what you have to do is ensure that, when you start up a business in a particular tax year, you inform HMRC in time for you to be able complete and submit a SA return for that tax year within the set time limits.