Bragging! And I'm not ashamed of it.

catkins

lostinrates wrote: »

A second note on back yard eggs sellers. I would not necessarily say this means higher welfare, in fact, I'd say in many cases it is very well meaning but very poor welfare. Small runs with very poor enrichment, too infrequent worming and land rotation. While its lovely for their owners I'm not sure its all that fun for the hens.

I agree that not all people who have chickens look after them properly although, hopefully, they still have a better life than a battery hen.

There are a few people fairly close to where I live whose chickens you can see running around in very large gardens and I try and buy from them. If, for whatever reason, I can't get eggs from them I always look to see how the chickens are kept. If I can't see them or they seem to have poor living conditions I won't buy.

lostinrates

catkins wrote: »

I agree that not all people who have chickens look after them properly although, hopefully, they still have a better life than a battery hen.

There are a few people fairly close to where I live whose chickens you can see running around in very large gardens and I try and buy from them. If, for whatever reason, I can't get eggs from them I always look to see how the chickens are kept. If I can't see them or they seem to have poor living conditions I won't buy.

I have a particular interest in ethics and welfare, A long time ago it was my area of study.

I really think very many back yard birds are not that much better off than many commercial birds.

Well done for seeing the birds, its the only way to be certain. . In a Totally ideal world, Birds like trees or bushes to shade in and sun to bath in. Gardens would be rotable so parasite control can be considered or the garden be considerable larger than average. We don't rotate our grazing ATM, but we have pretty insanely low stocking rates in a way that makes serious animal scientists roar with laughter. .

Also keep an eye out for birds that have nice rosy combs and don't scratch a lot.

dumpy

I'm curious, do any of the non battery egg eating people ever buy any item that used eggs in it's production? Biscuits or flans or cakes etc etc?

These will almost certainly contain battery eggs wouldn't they?

Kirri

dumpy wrote: »

I'm curious, do any of the non battery egg eating people ever buy any item that used eggs in it's production? Biscuits or flans or cakes etc etc?

These will almost certainly contain battery eggs wouldn't they?

A while ago most supermarkets made a point of saying they were switching to free range in their processed items though I think Morrisons? later went back on that and started using caged eggs again??

I don't generally buy anything processed, I try and make everything myself and if I do buy it tends to be organic.

But it's very hard if eating out - though I don't do a lot of that as most places probably use sub standard ingredients all round and do worse meals than I can cook at home!

lostinrates

dumpy wrote: »

I'm curious, do any of the non battery egg eating people ever buy any item that used eggs in it's production? Biscuits or flans or cakes etc etc?

These will almost certainly contain battery eggs wouldn't they?

A point I often raise on these discussions.

This, as well as a love of cooking, is the main reason we don't buy many processed foods. Its not just eggs, its milk (and milk and milk powders, things containing cheese or other cheap dairy produces)

Most people who are interested will spend a while looking at the raw ingredients then buy a packet of some thing ready made with these sort of ingredients. People buying milk powder, for example, or processed cheese, as a flavouring ingredient for a crisp or something, are rarely going to hunt out a free range version and not advertise it loudly on their packet, so that's where most of the 'least friendly' food produce ends up. Especially as people rarely thing about vegetarian things.

valk_scot

Lidl sell free range eggs for 95p or £1 a half dozen depending on size. Organic free range are a bit more (can't remember exactly what) but they're still considerably cheaper than Tesco. I mostly buy my eggs from a smallholder friend who keeps a couple of dozen hens but when she doesn't have any available I get my eggs from Lidl.

catkins

lostinrates wrote: »

I have a particular interest in ethics and welfare, A long time ago it was my area of study.

I really think very many back yard birds are not that much better off than many commercial birds.

Well done for seeing the birds, its the only way to be certain. . In a Totally ideal world, Birds like trees or bushes to shade in and sun to bath in. Gardens would be rotable so parasite control can be considered or the garden be considerable larger than average. We don't rotate our grazing ATM, but we have pretty insanely low stocking rates in a way that makes serious animal scientists roar with laughter. .

Also keep an eye out for birds that have nice rosy combs and don't scratch a lot.

Thanks for that information. I will bear it in mind when I am out looking for eggs to buy.

I do feel guilty about eating eggs but I love them so much that I just would struggle if I gave them up. Meat and fish were no problem to give up as I didn't really like either of them.

catkins

valk_scot wrote: »

Lidl sell free range eggs for 95p or £1 a half dozen depending on size. Organic free range are a bit more (can't remember exactly what) but they're still considerably cheaper than Tesco. I mostly buy my eggs from a smallholder friend who keeps a couple of dozen hens but when she doesn't have any available I get my eggs from Lidl.

I didn't realise Lidl sell organic free range eggs. I have never noticed them in my local one so will have to look next time I go. I am always a bit wary of buying free range in any supermarket because a couple of people have said that all they are often not free range. Someone I know used to work in an egg packing factory and she said the same eggs would go in all the different category egg boxes i.e. free range, barn etc.

Mind you with organic you can usually tell by the colour of the yolk and certainly the taste that they are really organic

Kirri

^ All eggs should have a number denoting whether FR/org/caged etc - wouldn't have thought large scale producers could get away with it but there have been cases in the past (where they were caught).

I am wary though more so about any large scale production of eggs even if organic/FR if flock sizes are huge

I also gave up meat easily. Fish never eaten. Dairy harder to give up for me.. Have you seen Hen Nation eggs? Good for guilty veggies who can't quite give eggs up.. (non destruct policy). Limited availability though (ie Farmaround or Selfridges!).

senileturtle

With pet hens, welfare will most likely be far superior to even 'free range hens' (whom are often just barn hens with a small enclosure next to the barn). Ex bats usually come from rescue centres or hen rescue charities. These will often do home checks to ensure proper care. Plus any farm bought eggs will come from hens who will be culled once their egg laying reduces to non-profitable amounts. Then there is the fact that on all systems, the male chicks are still killed by crushing, grinding, gassing etc - contrary to what Jamie Oliver has led the public to believe.

Most people with pet hens will happily let you see the hens and their environment. So you can decide then if you think they are adequately looked after or not. But as with all pets, there will be those horrid humans who treat them badly. Just report to RSPCA if you come across such.

As for eggs in products (I don't buy products with such in - make my own cakes etc), will often be battery as they are cheap. And again, where it states free range; doesn't necessarily mean what we imagine free range to be.

Lost, just curious why you term yourself carnivores when humans are incapable of such a diet without long term ill health or death.