Discussion ... ASHP(Air/Air) with Solar pv ....

EricMears

Coastalwatch wrote: »

I think that's correct although there shouldn't be a reason why it cannot replace the boiler in a conventional central heating arrangement. Other than it may cost rather a lot!

I haven't got any sort of HP in my CH system but think I understand the physics behind them. To raise water from ambient to hot enough for UFH, you could expect a COP of up to 4; to raise it to a temperature appropriate for conventional radiators you'd be lucky to get more than 2

ASavvyBuyer

Coastalwatch wrote: »

...Our external units are mounted on the wall of the gable end, above the garage then fed straight into the loft and from there down into lounge and lobby. As a vertical drop is involved each required a pump to return condensation collected, during cooling ops, to the outside world. Normal practise but just needs costing in.

We are very pleased with the unit we have in the lounge that we are thinking about getting another Toshiba unit to supply the kitchen. However, the inside unit will need to be mounted on an internal wall (all external walls in the kitchen have cupboards or windows, so not practical to mount a unit). We could run the pipework through the loft (we live in a bungalow) but it would involve a vertical drop to the internal unit. About how much extra was the condensation pump?

Coastalwatch

Hi ASB, the cost was £100 on each of our installations, although I had also been quoted £160 from another supplier.

WoolyMammoth

Giving serious consideration to dipping my toe(s?) in this as well.

Was thinking of putting a 2.5kW system with high COP (Toshiba Daiseikai, LG Prestige or Panasonic Etherea) at one end of our 7x3m living room - like others here I tried to find systems with low minimum input power for those 'shoulder' months when my PV has a small amount of excess.

I've put out feelers with 4 local a/c installers, so still very early days but 2 of them have come back recommending the Panasonic (at c.£1500 inc 5% VAT) - does anyone have any experience of this system?

Also, from the numbers that I have seen mentioned on this thread, does this cost seem a little high?

I foolishly thought that Jan/Feb was a good month to start looking as installers would be looking for business...

mnbvcxz

I'm uninformed but £1500 strikes me as on the high side. I have read of people paying around £1100 which still struck me as a fair amount. Looking at sites like;
https://www.orionairsales.co.uk/panasonic-air-conditioning-etherea-cs-z25tkew-wall-mounted-installation-pack-10367-p.asp

It suggests they are charging £500-800 for installation which seems to be rather allot.

On the other hand perhaps yours is a complex installation that involves much building work and making good...

Its a problem that the Uk doesn't seem to have a very efficient domestic air conditioning industry yet. Particularly if you want a small heat pump, like you do, the high fixed costs become rather a killer. I get the impression from reading around that £400 for installation is not unusual.

I am faintly thinking about getting one too. It is tricky, you can go for a £499 one from appliance direct and bodge in the self install option, hope it works and lasts five years. Or you can get a better brand with a slightly higher cop, better coping with cold weather (not that I need that in Cornwall) but then the cost leaps with the hundreds of pounds of installation fees for often a couple of hours with a vacuum pump and drilling a hole.

Hopefully as they become more popular more general tradesmen will get the skills and it will all become much cheaper...

best of luck.

Martyn1981

mnbvcxz wrote: »

I'm uninformed but £1500 strikes me as on the high side. I have read of people paying around £1100 which still struck me as a fair amount. Looking at sites like;
https://www.orionairsales.co.uk/panasonic-air-conditioning-etherea-cs-z25tkew-wall-mounted-installation-pack-10367-p.asp

It suggests they are charging £500-800 for installation which seems to be rather allot.

Yeah, mine came to just over a grand for a 3.5kW supplied and installed. I went for a cheaper model without the ability to run it on low power, which I regretted at first, but then it dawned on me that any import I use, is heating the house at roughly the same cost as GCH when COP is taken into account - so no regrets anymore.

If I do carry through with my plans to install a KWp (or so) of extra PV in the future, south facing steep install, plus a battery, then I might get a second ASHP unit installed too, and running one or two will in effect be a way to modulate power consumption/import.

WoolyMammoth

From the few businesses that actually share their installation costs online, it looks like £495 + VAT is common and anything other than a vanilla install would require you to "show them the money"!

My system would be a simple as it gets - straight through from one end of the living room to an outside wall over the driveway.

Now had 3 installers all going for the Panasonic Etherea at £1500-1600 incl VAT - wish I had access to your installer, Martin

However, they are recommending the 3.5kW unit rather than the 2.5kW one due to the size of the living room and as it's only another £60 I'm definitely wavering. The only downside is that the nominal power usage for the more powerful unit is 900W instead of 710W :undecided

Although I'm guessing that if I'm not generating enough then I can either run at a lower temperature/fan setting or not bother at all...

Just need to decide whether this price is low enough, and whether I want to pay the extra £100 or so for the newfangled interwebby control thingy :rotfl:

Martyn1981

WoolyMammoth wrote: »

Now had 3 installers all going for the Panasonic Etherea at £1500-1600 incl VAT - wish I had access to your installer, Martin

If it helps, I went with Cooleasy in Bridgend, whose prices are displayed (inc VAT and delivery) and standard install is £495 + VAT.

They link with installers around the country for the same prices, but that doesn't mean there will necessarily be anyone local to you, but their site says:

Wales:
Carmarthen, Swansea, Bridgend, Cardiff, Merthyr Tydfil, Newport & surrounding areas

England:
Dorset, Hampshire, West Sussex
London, Middlesex, Surrey, Kent, Essex & Berkshire
South Lancashire, Cheshire, Derbishire & South Yorkshire
Manchester, Merseyside, Cheshire

Hope this helps, but I note they don't seem to have Panasonic on their site.

Edit - Whilst the high wall mounted selection doesn't have Panasonic, I note that they do mention Panasonic on their front page, so ...... perhaps ask?

WoolyMammoth

Sadly, I'm in about the only part of the south east that they don't cover :-(
Asked one of the installers how much they charge for install only - £600 + VAT!
Got another local company coming on Monday so fingers crossed for a lower quote.

Also, I (foolishly) sent a query to my local council asking what requirements/restrictions they might have for domestic air con units and they told me that I need planning permission!!!:(
Shirley that isn't correct?

zeupater

WoolyMammoth wrote: »

Sadly, I'm in about the only part of the south east that they don't cover :-(
Asked one of the installers how much they charge for install only - £600 + VAT!
Got another local company coming on Monday so fingers crossed for a lower quote.

Also, I (foolishly) sent a query to my local council asking what requirements/restrictions they might have for domestic air con units and they told me that I need planning permission!!!:(
Shirley that isn't correct?

Hi

Ask them to justify the statement after they've checked the relevant planning documentation!

You need to comply with building, F-Gas & electrical regulations as well as planning guidelines regarding positioning relative to boundaries and not have too many installations, but for a straightforward installation there's not too much more unless your property is listed ... your planning department may have a stricter policy concerning such things in which case they would need to consult their relevant department head for documentation & legislation regarding carbon reduction before reassessing that position, or they could simply be in error on what they've told you (which wouldn't be a surprise!), but either way now they know what you're planning to do they need to confirm & justify their position in order to remove the ambiguity you will now face!

HTH
Z