Excel Parking - Peel Center, Stockport

tricky720101

Hi,
Just received this Parking Charge Notice!

Contravention Date 16/06/2013

Received Notice 4/7/2013

Duration of stay 35 mins

We were only returning 2 items so I waited in car as baby son was asleep, did not notice ANPR signage and I think £60 fine is excessive for a 20 minute overstay with respect to the 15 min grace period.

I am going to appeal with the following:-

I refer to your Contractual Parking Charge Notice number: XLxxxxxxxx

The amount of the charge is disproportionate to the loss incurred by the Operator, and is punitive, contravening the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997.

I am unable to confirm at this stage if I was the driver of the vehicle at the date shown. I cannot think of any action of mine that may have contributed to the alleged contractual contravention and cannot remember entering into any parking contract with you.

I am therefore unable to make an informed appeal against the circumstances since I am unsure if it was me that agreed any contract with you, although I certainly don't recall doing so. I am unwilling to make any payment on notification from a company I do not know, for an amount I cannot remember agreeing to, on a contract I didn't have any knowledge of.

I will not make payment for any speculative demand without proof of the existence of any supposed contract between us, and your legal right to make such a contract with me in the first place. If you would kindly send details as follows I will then be able to properly consider this matter fully and my own liability for any alleged contractual breach:

Proof of your right to make a contract with a driver using the said car park facility. This to be in the form of landowner rights such as a copy of the land deeds, any contract with the landowner giving you the right of occupation of the land rather than a right of access for monitoring the said area, or a lease agreement for the land in question.

A copy of the contract between yourself and the landlord showing your responsibilities in monitoring the car park on their behalf, and your right to pursue any matter to legal proceedings if no payment is forthcoming.

A copy of any contract that you allege exists between yourself or landowner client and me; such contract to be shown to have been properly offered and then accepted by me or any other driver who may have been involved in this matter.

The reasoning of the alleged contravention. Please advise as to whether this alleged offence was supposedly for a Breach of a Contractual Parking arrangement or for Trespass. If no contractual agreement was made or accepted by either party, then an explanation as to why you consider trespass was committed in an area where there is free access by the landowner to members of the public.

In the unlikely event that you do have full rights to make contracts with individual drivers, either on behalf of the landowner, or at your own behest due to some contractual arrangement with your client, then I need a breakdown of what charges have been made in connection with the alleged contravention or trespass and how they have been calculated in accordance with the necessity to make a charge for a known financial loss to the landowner.
I am aware of the legal aspects of the monitoring of such premises and am keen to avoid any doubt as to whether or not you have a legal right to demand payment, and whether I am equally liable to make that payment as demanded.

I am also aware of the existence of various cases in courts which have shown that the vast majority of such demands are made by companies who have no authority to make them in the first place, so I need to remove that doubt in this case to progress it any further.

Failure to provide the information requested in support of your claim will mean that I will not consider this particular charge to have any merit and will therefore refuse payment accordingly. It may also carry the consequence of a complaint being made for harassment if demands continue in any form if you do not send me the information requested.
Yours faithfully



Is this a bit to much for a first appeal attempt???

any comments on the above appeal would be most welcome.

cheers
Rick

bazster

Much too much, since they will reject it anyway. On the face of it the Notice they sent you is out-of-time. What is the issue date on the notice itself, and have you still got the envelope? (although, sadly, these often don't have a dated postmark these days).

Coupon-mad

bazster wrote: »

Much too much, since they will reject it anyway. On the face of it the Notice they sent you is out-of-time. What is the issue date on the notice itself, and have you still got the envelope? (although, sadly, these often don't have a dated postmark these days).

Looks that way. If it is out of time (they had 14 days to get the Notice to you, tricky) then send this 'strong complaint' version of a letter/email to the PPC and at the same time, a strong complaint to the DVLA by email, as here, just copy them both & add your own details:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=80531

Broadsword is an expert on pepipoo with a lot of clout with the DVLA and he does know his stuff. We should be sending these complaint emails every time a PPC sends a Notice to Keeper too late.

Guys_Dad

ANPR PPCs are making the mistake of thinking that they have 14 days from the day after the contravention to SEND the NTK, whereas POFA2012 actually says

(3)The notice must relate only to a single period of parking specified under sub-paragraph (2)(a) (but this does not prevent the giving of separate notices which each specify different parts of a single period of parking).

(4)The notice must be given by—

(a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or

(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.

(6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

So I would remove all of your original letter (though keep it handy for any POPLA appeal).

Simply tell them that they have failed to abide by POFA2012 and quote the relevant extract above. Point out that the dates on their NTK confirm their failure and you want the charge withdrawn or a POPLA code by return.

You could also recommend that they ask Santa for a calendar for Christmas.

bazster

Santa...:rotfl:

Guys_Dad

bazster wrote: »

Santa...:rotfl:

Well, the PPCs try to get their claws into us motorists, so I thought I might get one into them.

tricky720101

Bazster

The issue date is 26/6/2013 so if you use this date and calculated allowed time described in POFA2012 for postage is stated as 2 days so in the eyes of the law the letter arrived on Fri 28th. How can I prove that the letter arrived late??

Rick

tricky720101

Think I will use this intially:-

Dear PPC,

Your invoice XLxxxxxxxx dated 16/06/2013

The driver does not recognise your authority in this car park or your right to impose any terms, conditions or contracts on parking motorists, and wishes to appeal on that basis.

If you reject this appeal, I require within 35 days a POPLA verification code for me to appeal independently as per the requirements set out on the POPLA web site, further supported by the BPA Code of Practice.

You have been given the reasons for the appeal above. I have nothing further to add, and will not respond to any correspondence from your company unless it contains the POPLA code.

Be aware that there will be formal complaints to POPLA and to the BPA if there is no POPLA code on any rejection that you supply.!

Yours faithfully


Seems to be vague enough for an initial appeal!

Rick;)

bazster

tricky720101 wrote: »

Bazster

The issue date is 26/6/2013 so if you use this date and calculated allowed time described in POFA2012 for postage is stated as 2 days so in the eyes of the law the letter arrived on Fri 28th. How can I prove that the letter arrived late??

Rick

No postmarked envelope I take it? These scum are not above backdating a letter to some time before they actually posted it.

All is not lost however. We're not talking about criminal standards of proof here and if push comes to shove it's your word against theirs, and who is to say your word is any less valid?

In any case, they are stuffed on inadequate signage at this place. They actually lost a court case over it a while ago and to the best of my knowledge the signage is still the same as it was then.

So, get a soft appeal off to them:

Dear Whatever,

The keeper rejects all liability for this charge on POPLA Ground 4, "I am not liable for the parking charge". Your Notice to Keeper arrived outwith the timescales prescribed in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, therefore no keeper liability exists.

No further correspondence will be entered into. You must now cancel the charge or issue a POPLA code per the BPA Code of Practice. Be advised that (i) failing to comply with a code of conduct to which you have committed is an offence under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and (ii) your failure to issue a POPLA code will indicate your acceptance of this challenge.

Yours,

R. Keeper

smiler.aw

Hi

I have the same thing happen my partner went to KFC on the peel centre Stockport and parked right outside the doors believing it to be free parking then 2 weeks later I get a parking charge notice from excel for £60 if paid within 14 days.

I contacted KFC manager at peel centre and he said loads of people complaining as getting fines for parking whilst nipping in and that he can't really say this or advise but others have not paid it and one lady just stacks them up in her draw, I then looked on here after being very angry with my partner over this.

After looking at threads on here I sent an appeal with a £2.00 postal order as he was only there 35 mins. And explained I was not driving , I did not give the drivers name.

Today I have received a letter from excel to return the postal order as I was not driving, letter states-

PcN lies with driver of vehicle at time the parking contravention was observed, 3 actions
1) signed and dated statement from driver stating I can appeal on there behalf,
2) notify diver to contact them.
3) pay the PCN( not a chance, I want to pay this!!!!)

Please be aware if you fail to provide valid name and address , we will revert to registered keeper for recovery in accordance with protection of freedoms act 2012.

Any help would be gratefully appreciated in what I should do next thank you in advance for your help:)

Coupon-mad

On a parking forum we have to have a rule of 'one case one thread' for obvious reasons to stop confusion over dates and details. This is tricky720101's thread.

But please just search the forum and read other Peel Centre threads before just starting your own, you'd learn a lot more from reading other threads (but not adding to them!) then starting your own when more informed about the scam.

There are DOZENS of threads to read about Excel at the Peel Centre which can be found by using the 'search this forum' facility in the small titles just above the current thread list (current thread list being ONE click away, see my signature below for where to click). One keyword 'Peel' gets you results such as this one for starters:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4488529

No replies on this thread please except regarding tricky720101's case.