New CSA assessment, Help!

ihatethecsa

Following a disagreement with my wife, my 13 yo daughter decided she wanted to live with her birth mother. Up until that point we had a court appointed joint custody order. Neither party paid maintenance, but my ex put in a claim and was awarded the child benefit as she had her for slightly more hours of the week. Shortly after she went to stay with her mother, I received a letter from the CSA demanding I make payment for my daughter, a complete surprise considering she had only been gone for such a short period of time, and my last conversation with my ex was to try this out as a temporary arrangement.

I had also made a verbal agreement for her to let me know of any costs and I would pay half.

She told me not to worry about it!

My relationship with my ex has always been a difficult one and communication has now all but ceased, as well as contact with my daughter. My daughter's attitude has drastically changed towards me, and I have not seen her or spoken to her now for nearly two months, but have had numerous text messages via her new mobile phone demanding items, cash, etc.

We have now been ordered to make payments of £35/w, or just short of £150/m, taking into account I have a mortgage, two further children and my wife to support. Average earnings £1100/m. Last few months salary have been higher due to temporary overtime being available and this higher than average amount is what the CSA have based there assessment on, even though I stated on the form that I rarely work overtime, but had to at present until more staff could be taken on. They could of course confirm this by looking at all my previous wage slips, but they will not. I have been advised that I can get this reviewed and back dated in 'a few months' by supplying more wage slips etc. but I still think based on the figures they used that the assessment is wrong, I have also been informed my other two children's Child Tax Credit payments will be taken into account as household earnings, and they are now reviewing my case with a view to increasing the payments further, why would any just system require money allotted to the support of my other children (one step, one mine) be assessed and used to support my daughter!!!!. How do I challenge this when we have been told we have no right to appeal. My ex's partner earns more than me AND they have claimed CTC and CB payments for her since the court order.

I am in no way looking to avoid my obligation to support my children, but this system seems so biased and unfair and has put my whole family in severe financial trouble to say the least. Does this amount seem to be in keeping with other people's experience, and is there any other way to mitigate the loss of household income this causes. Obviously if I work more hours or get another job, my payments will increase in step. A lot of people have suggested letters to my MP, any advice would be gratefully received.

clearingout

the only reduction you are likely to be entitled to is for the children who are living with you - you should check your assessment paperwork to make sure they have been included (it won't be automatic, you will have had to mention in the first place). If you have two qualifying children living with you then you will pay CSA on only 80% of your take home pay rather than 100%.

If that has been done, then you will have no choice but to pay the assessed amount as this is how it works. It is argued, of course, that your first child shouldn't suffer because you move in with someone with children and that you should ensure you can afford any subsequent children - but a reduction will be made for those additional children so it's a bit 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

Your MP will do little other than make sure your assessment is correct. That you then pay it is 'the Law' and enforcement action will swiftly follow if you refuse to pay. It does no harm to let your MP know of the impact on your household but equally, your ex now has additional costs to manage with her daughter living with her full time. Should you not have to contribute?

Blackpool_Saver

A row with her Stepmother, just how bad was this row?

barahs

to the poster above i really dont think how bad the argument was is the issue here.


to the original poster you have my sympathy i have the same issues, i have my mp involved and all i can advise you is to make sure all communication with them is via letters. That way you can read and re-read everything they send you till you fully understand it. Then formulate your replies based on that. Be aware that often you will get more than one letter from them from two different offices!!! left hand and right hand scenarios come into play then.

good luck

shoe*diva79

ihatethecsa wrote: »

Following a disagreement with my wife, my 13 yo daughter decided she wanted to live with her birth mother. Up until that point we had a court appointed joint custody order. Neither party paid maintenance, but my ex put in a claim and was awarded the child benefit as she had her for slightly more hours of the week. Shortly after she went to stay with her mother, I received a letter from the CSA demanding I make payment for my daughter, a complete surprise considering she had only been gone for such a short period of time, and my last conversation with my ex was to try this out as a temporary arrangement.

I had also made a verbal agreement for her to let me know of any costs and I would pay half.

She told me not to worry about it!

My relationship with my ex has always been a difficult one and communication has now all but ceased, as well as contact with my daughter. My daughter's attitude has drastically changed towards me, and I have not seen her or spoken to her now for nearly two months, but have had numerous text messages via her new mobile phone demanding items, cash, etc.

We have now been ordered to make payments of £35/w, or just short of £150/m, taking into account I have a mortgage, two further children and my wife to support. Average earnings £1100/m. Last few months salary have been higher due to temporary overtime being available and this higher than average amount is what the CSA have based there assessment on, even though I stated on the form that I rarely work overtime, but had to at present until more staff could be taken on. They could of course confirm this by looking at all my previous wage slips, but they will not. I have been advised that I can get this reviewed and back dated in 'a few months' by supplying more wage slips etc. but I still think based on the figures they used that the assessment is wrong, I have also been informed my other two children's Child Tax Credit payments will be taken into account as household earnings, and they are now reviewing my case with a view to increasing the payments further, why would any just system require money allotted to the support of my other children (one step, one mine) be assessed and used to support my daughter!!!!. How do I challenge this when we have been told we have no right to appeal. My ex's partner earns more than me AND they have claimed CTC and CB payments for her since the court order.

I am in no way looking to avoid my obligation to support my children, but this system seems so biased and unfair and has put my whole family in severe financial trouble to say the least. Does this amount seem to be in keeping with other people's experience, and is there any other way to mitigate the loss of household income this causes. Obviously if I work more hours or get another job, my payments will increase in step. A lot of people have suggested letters to my MP, any advice would be gratefully received.

Are the CSA aware of the 2 children in your household? You will get a 20% reduction for them. The rest is all correct. Your ex's partner dosent come into it. Its YOUR daughter to support.

As clearing out mentions, it may not be fair to take tax credits into consideration, but then on the other hand, neither is it fair that your step child and new child cause your first child to receive a deduction in maintenance due to them.

You can always ask or a reassessment if your wage fluctuates 5% when you stop doing overtime.

Blackpool_Saver

barahs wrote: »

to the poster above i really dont think how bad the argument was is the issue here.

really, hmmm, well I have been a stepmother to ungrateful little brats who tried to hold you to ransom with the "I'll tell my mother" and "I don't have to do as you say, I am going back to my real mother" etc etc.....their silly whims about having to do as they are told once in a while should not be allowed to disturb adults finances like this, it's ridiculous

kevin137

I know this is probably going to hit a few nerves, but court ordered custody is currently in place...

So until that changes, technically you do actually have rights or the child should be at yours...

And as this is ordered by a court, then you could technically state to the CSA that the care is shared... So if it is ordered weekly alternately then it should be reduced by at least 3/7ths...

I understand that you do not currently have this access, but it is ordered, and as such until it is changed then the CSA should comply with charging as per the court order. This would need to be revisited by the PWC (the childs mother) in court to get the order changed to bring the payments up to what is actually happening...!!!

As i say, this is not an ideal way of doing things, but if she was happy to say fine we will deal with money ourselves and then go behind your back as per her right, then your right is to state that the court order is still valid and while you can't force a child, you still have to provide for that child regardless of it s/he is there in compliance with the order...!!!

Just a thought...

EclipsedMind

The CSA will take mums word for it that no contact is happening no matter what the order says. To correct Kevin you have no rights - your child has rights! The living arrangements in a court order are nearly always unless both parties agree otherwise which the OP has.

Looking at specifics - If the court order is a consent order then it is just an agreement between the parties and unenforceable. Even if it is a proper shared residence order under section 8 of the children's act the reality is that there is no real enforcement. It is rare to the point of near non existence to have enforcement powers of the family court actually used (fines, unpaid work or committal).

With at least a 6 week (more likely double that) wait for getting to enforcement proceedings (must try mediation first then file C100 and wait on court schedule) he is on a hiding to nothing as the status quo is being established. If his daughter then says she does not want much / any contact then wishes and feelings will be considered and most likely cafcass will have to do a report (kiss goodbye to another 3 months) more firmly establishing status quo.

TBH the whole family justice system and CSA is a mess but occasionally it can work if you persevere.

In you situation I would try and speak to the daughter and agree contact with her. If the mother obstructs it then initiate mediation and prepare for a stint in court (represent yourself if you are able or get help from a group like families need fathers).

EM

kevin137

To correct Kevin you have no rights - your child has rights!

I think you misunderstood me...

He has rights regarding the CSA, and those rights are simply that he does not pay the full 7/7ths as he has legal paperwork that stipulate the court ordered or agreed access...

And until that changes, he should get a reduction on his assessment...!!!

So in the meantime, while sorting out the contact mess, approach the CSA for this reduction, as it is YOUR RIGHT...

Or will it be a case of the mother says, but she doesn't stay there and he should pay...???

All i am saying is this order by agreement or otherwise is a legal document, that means he has to provide for is child on a shared care basis regardless of if the child comes or not, so the cost is still there, as it is for the mother, the difference is the agreement that gives him the paperwork to prove he has the care, much like the CB gives her the right to claim CSA...

kevin137

On a different note, you said that the mother claimed the CB because she had slightly more hours...?

Forget the hours, who had the most overnight stays...??? And what was ordered for overnight stays...???

It makes little difference but if you have or had more overnight then you would be considered the primary carer and as such she would have no claim, so the wording may be a little confusing...

It is a sore subject for many parents who split and deal with "shared custody" as the law doesn't actually see it as shared in the financial arena... Only as far as the care goes, so you may well be the primary carer but because of this you are still legally liable to pay over a percentage while the ex would pay nothing... And all because the CSA use the CB as the primary factor in considering a claim...

cte1111

Child support for one child is 15% of your net income. As you are responsible for 2 other children, then this will be based on 80% of your net income.

£1100 * 80% * 15% = £132 per month (approx £30 per week)

Given that they've assessed it when you were earning more, then the assessment sounds about right. There may also be arrears, as it takes time to do the paperwork. As Kevin has said, you can also claim a reduction for each night per week that your daughter stays with you, if appropriate.

They can also include tax credits in the assessment, although for some reason they don't seem to do this initially, but re-assess including the tax credits after the initial award. We could argue til the cows come home about whether this is fair or not, but that's the system. If you're not already, then you should put some money aside each month to pay your legal obligation.