FIT tariff if i change solar PV supplier

smackie1973

Hi

I have just sent off a letter of complaint to the company who installed my solar PV system last June. For background, my first FIT payment (received in Jan) was much less than expected which sent me on a merry game of comparing readings with neighbours and working closely with the supplier to get the system fixed.

It turned out there was a fault with the cabling and it didn't get fixed until the middle of March! Essentially, my system was only running at 1/3rd of capacity for at least 5 months out of the 12 they have been installed.

I am inwardly considering asking the supplier for a complete refund and for them to remove all the equipment.

My question is this, if i get them leave the generation meter in place, can I get another company to install a solar PV system and still receive my FIT tariff at the current rate (21p)?
As the generation meter is registered for FIT and not the panels/inverter, i don't see any reason why this would not be the case.

Thanks

tunnel

Would think the answer to your question would be NO. Any installer fitting a new set of panels still has to be MCS approved and would still have to comission the system once installed. This means a new registration and hence getting the lower tariff. I'm sure someone will be along sooner or later and correct me if i'm wrong.

Martyn1981

Hiya smackie, sorry to hear about your troubles.

Your idea of replacing the whole system doesn't sound right to me. I appreciate that the TGM serial number appears on the MCS certificate, but if the meter, or the inverter fail, you can swap them out (though you'd have to register the new meter serial number with your FIT provider so it matches up to any meter reader/reading). However, under 'MCS Product Details' you'll see that your panels are fully detailed.

It's my understanding that the panels define your install. If one fails, you'd need to replace with a similar Wp panel, and notify the FIT provider of the change. Perhaps somebody has had this happen and can confirm?

Also if you think about it, you get 21.65p for 24 more years, compared to the current 14.9p for 20 years. The rate change is there to reflect the falling cost of an install.

So assuming you paid £8k, but get a replacement for £6k, you'd get the current install rate, but the old tariff rate.

Only thing I can think of is if the same installer took out the old system and put in the new (with no refund of any difference to you) and was able to get an amended MCS cert for your FIT provider. But I assume you want clear of the old company, and I doubt a total re-fit would be allowed anyway, unless there was a good reason, such as a major fire or similar(?)

Not sure this has helped you, but all the best in getting it sorted.

Mart.

rogerblack

You can certainly ask for them to remove the system, and for a complete refund.
I would be truly astonished if their response did not border on the obscene.

You have absolutely no grounds in law to require this.
If they have fixed the fault, and it was grossly negligent - there is an argument for them compensating you to some degree for the lost FIT payments.

smackie1973

Thanks for the feedback so far.

Martyn you are correct, I want rid of the current supplier and to be honest if I do get a complete refund I wouldn't be rushing out to replace my system.

Roger, I didn't go into the whole story above but on top of the physical issues, I believe I have grounds for being mis-sold the product in the first place. Pressured to sign on the day for a special discount is just one example. A practice which according to the real consumer code is banned!

zeupater

smackie1973 wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback so far.

Martyn you are correct, I want rid of the current supplier and to be honest if I do get a complete refund I wouldn't be rushing out to replace my system.

Roger, I didn't go into the whole story above but on top of the physical issues, I believe I have grounds for being mis-sold the product in the first place. Pressured to sign on the day for a special discount is just one example. A practice which according to the real consumer code is banned!

Hi

Although I have sympathies for the position described in this thread I really find it hard to follow the above post. If the installer has now rectified the initial problem then the potential income stream should easily outperform anything else which the poster would likely be able to find, so why would anyone be taking such a negative view ....

The current best position would be to follow earlier advice on this thread and request that the installer makes a contribution towards the lost FiT income resulting from the faulty wiring, however, I really do find it pretty difficult to understand how anyone would not have identified a system as only performing at 1/3 capacity for 5 months, unless there's a complete misunderstanding of the seasonality of pv generation ....

Regarding the 'pressure selling', raise it directly with the REA and they'll likely investigate. However, my view on this is that having not raised the issue until the system had been installed for over 12months, and only then after an altercation with the installer, the complaint will simply be considered as being vexatious towards the vendor and treated as such.

If I was in a similar position and was unhappy with the installation, I would simply maintain relations with the installer whilst the system is covered by their warranty and meanwhile talk to other people in the area who are satisfied with their own installer and look to develop a relationship with an alternative supplier should a future requirement develop (maintenance, breakdown, inverter etc)

HTH
Z

smackie1973

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

The current best position would be to follow earlier advice on this thread and request that the installer makes a contribution towards the lost FiT income resulting from the faulty wiring, however, I really do find it pretty difficult to understand how anyone would not have identified a system as only performing at 1/3 capacity for 5 months, unless there's a complete misunderstanding of the seasonality of pv generation ....

HTH
Z

I could tell the system wasn't working at full capacity because i could compare readings with 2 neighbours. i.e. my next door neighbour with the same panel layout facing the same direction was generating 3 times more than me over the same time period. Nothing to do with the fact it was winter.
If he generated 3Kw i generated 1kw. Without this information, it would have been difficult to know how much i should have been generating.

I identified the problem at the start of Jan when i found out my neighbour generated 140Kw in Nov-Dec and i had generated about 50Kw. It then took the supplier 3 months to fix the issue. They didn't actually check the physical cabling for over 2 months and instead concentrated on changing the configuration of the array.ie. changing from one 16 panel array to two 8 panel arrays. After getting nowhere, they finally moved the panels to check the underlying cables only to find they had been destroyed by pigeons!

I was also told my black panels would significantly outperform my neighbours blue panels. This is not the case. We have compared readings for the couple of months and they have been within 1Kw of each other. Doesn't sound like a significantly better system to me.

zeupater

smackie1973 wrote: »

I could tell the system wasn't working at full capacity because i could compare readings with 2 neighbours. i.e. my next door neighbour with the same panel layout facing the same direction was generating 3 times more than me over the same time period. Nothing to do with the fact it was winter.
If he generated 3Kw i generated 1kw. Without this information, it would have been difficult to know how much i should have been generating.

I identified the problem at the start of Jan when i found out my neighbour generated 140Kw in Nov-Dec and i had generated about 50Kw. It then took the supplier 3 months to fix the issue. They didn't actually check the physical cabling for over 2 months and instead concentrated on changing the configuration of the array.ie. changing from one 16 panel array to two 8 panel arrays. After getting nowhere, they finally moved the panels to check the underlying cables only to find they had been destroyed by pigeons!

I was also told my black panels would significantly outperform my neighbours blue panels. This is not the case. We have compared readings for the couple of months and they have been within 1Kw of each other. Doesn't sound like a significantly better system to me.

Hi

Thanks for the update.

I don't really follow how pigeons could destroy cables, mice or squirrels possibly, but pigeons ? ... that would likely only happen if it was poorly made MC3 connections (which are resistance push fit), or incomplete MC4 connections (tab-lock) .... anyway, when the system was installed the supplier should have checked the DC performance of each of the panels and that of the whole circuit as part of the commissioning process .... any future performance degradation is measured against this baseline, this forming the basis of the panel suppliers long-term performance guarantee. It would have been pretty simple for the supplier to check the performance of the single string against the baseline in order to identify a DC issue which has arisen post installation.

I would expect that there would be a very good argument to request that the installer make compensation for the period between the issue being raised and their fixing it, but not the full 5 months seeing that they weren't aware of the issue. Applying a reasonable expectation rule and allow them a couple of weeks grace, I'd look to negotiate around a sum based on ~2.5 months at expected generation as per PVGIS ... that sounds pretty reasonable to me, after all, any delays were down to their own scheduling.

As for panel performance, I doubt that there's anywhere to go on that front. I've posted a number of times regarding relative performance claims on panel marketing literature, pointing out to a number of members that the claims made (mainly for Sanyo hybrid panels ) related only to data collected in one location in Japan, on one specific day, which is totally meaningless on a scientific basis .... I'd just consider it as being marketing hype, worded carefully by a major international corporate body in the knowledge that it would almost be impossible for anyone to make a performance case/claim because no-one knows the test criteria -or- the type or make of the panels being compared to -and- the location would not be the one specifically mentioned in the trial -and- seeing that the weather, temperature, insolation and other conditions on the date specified in the marketing literature are so specific they cannot be assumed to represent average conditions/performance. Of course, your installer would simply claim to be providing information in good faith, based on the marketing literature ...

HTH
Z

smackie1973

Some good info there thanks.

Re the pigeons, they managed to get under the panels and started nesting amongst the cables. The installation team told me that the pigeon guano (highly acidic - don't leave it on your car!) destroyed the cables to the point where they were shorting out.

According to the local pest controller i spoke to last week, this is increasingly common and he says solar companies should do more to prevent it happening.

I agree with you on the performance aspect, however, i paid more than my neighbour for an apparantly superior system. If it's not superior then i want to know why. I realise, that i've probably just been ripped off!

I understand that the best i can hope for is refunded FIT payments and, if i can get away with it, i intend to bil them for the time i had to take off work to repeatedly grant the installation team access to my premises as they couldn't just work outside - they needed access to the loft. If you don't ask you don't get :-)

jimjames

smackie1973 wrote: »

I They didn't actually check the physical cabling for over 2 months and instead concentrated on changing the configuration of the array.ie. changing from one 16 panel array to two 8 panel arrays. After getting nowhere, they finally moved the panels to check the underlying cables only to find they had been destroyed by pigeons!

I was also told my black panels would significantly outperform my neighbours blue panels. This is not the case. We have compared readings for the couple of months and they have been within 1Kw of each other. Doesn't sound like a significantly better system to me.

It does seem a little strange to blame the installers for something that has happened since. Or do you think the pigeons was an excuse? The fault with the cabling sounds like it happened post install so although they may have been slow to diagnose they had installed correctly initially and therefore liability may not be theirs.

Glad we are able to access under our panels via velux window and prevent pigeons from nesting though!

Once installed it would seem better to keep them with the rate being paid at the higher level. Removing will get the rate at the new install date.

I'd agree with previous post, it would sound to me like the sales process is being raised now after the problems, to wait 12 months does seem rather long if it was an issue at the time.