Child Benefits Arrears Question

Shoesie

Good afternoon and thanks you in advance for your help.

I have been paying child benefit since late 2006. My ex and I have an ok relationship and chose to pay direct rather than use the CSA. Initially I was on JSA and was paying a flat rate, them as I progressed in my career this has gone up as it should. We always used the online Calculator provided by the csa to determine the amount that I should pay.

Yesterday I received a phone call from the CSA that I had £1800 in arrears to pay and I had to make the payment as quickly as possible. The csa were going to double the amount they are taking, giving me only ten days notice. I couldn't understand how this was possible and my first reaction is this could be a scam. So I called the CSA and they confirmed that this is correct.

They advised that my ex had been on JSA while receiving my payments but had not declared them. As a result I now owe the Secretary of State £1800. I don't ne'er stand why I should be responsible for me ex not declaring the amounts that she received from me. He simply said that this is how the law works. He was very unhelpful and would not offer any advise. I asked if they could call my ex and confirm with her that she has received those payments but he said they would not do this. I said asked, if my ex was to call in and tell them that they received these payments would that make a difference? He said no it would still be my responsibility.

If anyone could offer any advise that would be most helpful and very much appreciated. The whole thing is very I stressful.

Thanks again

Andy

DUTR

Shoesie wrote: »

Good afternoon and thanks you in advance for your help.

I have been paying child benefit since late 2006. My ex and I have an ok relationship and chose to pay direct rather than use the CSA. Initially I was on JSA and was paying a flat rate, them as I progressed in my career this has gone up as it should. We always used the online Calculator provided by the csa to determine the amount that I should pay.

Yesterday I received a phone call from the CSA that I had £1800 in arrears to pay and I had to make the payment as quickly as possible. The csa were going to double the amount they are taking, giving me only ten days notice. I couldn't understand how this was possible and my first reaction is this could be a scam. So I called the CSA and they confirmed that this is correct.

They advised that my ex had been on JSA while receiving my payments but had not declared them. As a result I now owe the Secretary of State £1800. I don't ne'er stand why I should be responsible for me ex not declaring the amounts that she received from me. He simply said that this is how the law works. He was very unhelpful and would not offer any advise. I asked if they could call my ex and confirm with her that she has received those payments but he said they would not do this. I said asked, if my ex was to call in and tell them that they received these payments would that make a difference? He said no it would still be my responsibility.

If anyone could offer any advise that would be most helpful and very much appreciated. The whole thing is very I stressful.

Thanks again

Andy

In fairness, I don't think the saga went as you described, anyways if you have been paying by some traceable method what was due and on time, then you have little to worry about, however I think between the lines you have misunderstood the concept of direct pay etc.

Shoesie

DUTR wrote: »

In fairness, I don't think the saga went as you described, anyways if you have been paying by some traceable method what was due and on time, then you have little to worry about, however I think between the lines you have misunderstood the concept of direct pay etc.

After a year I started paying by standing order yes. But not for the whole duration. also from 2008 i had shared care and so didn't pay anything until 2012 when i moved due to work.

with regards to direct agreements, how exactly did I miss understand it? If you cold explain what i have not understood that would be great.

From the start we told the CSA we did not want them involved (due to the horror stories that we had heard) and that we would have our own arrangement. The CSA did not refuse this and we did not hear from them again. In 2012 I started paying through the CSA because My ex's new partner wanted it this way. It doesn't make any difference to me how I pay her, the amount is still the same. My worries are the CSA's administration is useless. They lost birth certificates, asked for the same information repeatedly despite acknowledging they had it. Took months to set the case up and now this. I understand the need for their organisation where their are parents who do not contribute, but that is not me.

What I don't understand is if my ex has told them I have been paying, why am I deemed responsible for monies that she has not declared? If that is the case where is her incentive to declare it?

I am in debt for someone else's mistakes.

Does than seem right?

DUTR

Shoesie wrote: »

After a year I started paying by standing order yes. But not for the whole duration. also from 2008 i had shared care and so didn't pay anything until 2012 when i moved due to work.

with regards to direct agreements, how exactly did I miss understand it? If you cold explain what i have not understood that would be great.

From the start we told the CSA we did not want them involved (due to the horror stories that we had heard) and that we would have our own arrangement. The CSA did not refuse this and we did not hear from them again. In 2012 I started paying through the CSA because My ex's new partner wanted it this way. It doesn't make any difference to me how I pay her, the amount is still the same. My worries are the CSA's administration is useless. They lost birth certificates, asked for the same information repeatedly despite acknowledging they had it. Took months to set the case up and now this. I understand the need for their organisation where their are parents who do not contribute, but that is not me.

What I don't understand is if my ex has told them I have been paying, why am I deemed responsible for monies that she has not declared? If that is the case where is her incentive to declare it?

I am in debt for someone else's mistakes.

Does than seem right?

You should have heard from them again, always have everything in writing, saves some fuss later on.....

kevin137

If she was on benefits pre 2010, YOU don't get to decide who uses the CSA.

I am guessing that she told you that she would stop the claim and go direct pay so she would get the money, wether you paid it all or not is only in your mind, but the fact of the matter is, you did not have the legal right to pay her direct and as such the debt is now yours...

Although to be fair, if you can prove that you paid her as child maintenance you may have a claim against her for the money through the county court as not rightfully hers or undeclared, but that is a long shot...

Unfortunately you have to suck it up and pay... She is the only person that benefited from this... Take it up with her...

Shoesie

kevin137 wrote: »

If she was on benefits pre 2010, YOU don't get to decide who uses the CSA.

I am guessing that she told you that she would stop the claim and go direct pay so she would get the money, wether you paid it all or not is only in your mind, but the fact of the matter is, you did not have the legal right to pay her direct and as such the debt is now yours...

Although to be fair, if you can prove that you paid her as child maintenance you may have a claim against her for the money through the county court as not rightfully hers or undeclared, but that is a long shot...

Unfortunately you have to suck it up and pay... She is the only person that benefited from this... Take it up with her...

Thanks for the replies

We didn't simply ignore the CSA we advised them we wanted to have our own arrangement and they stopped contacting me. I presume they stopped contacting her too. I certainly was not aware if they were.

The payments were not only in my mind as I paid by standing order and so can get the proof if required. I'm just not sure if the courts will care.

The fact I have to pay twice and the ex benefits twice is ridiculous. How its not considered benefit fraud on her part I don't know.

If this was truly considered as fair and just why did they change the rules (complete reverse).

Its to a point that I now have to seriously consider if I can continue to work.

shoe*diva79

You will still have to pay the arrears even if your not working. So if you were able to claim JSA (to which you would be sanctioned if you quit your job) then minimum £5 a week would be taken out of your JSA payment leaving you with around £65 a week to live on.

It really annoys me when someone says they are seriously thinking of giving up employment. I understand its frustrating that you may end up paying twice, so be proactive and involve your MP to get to the bottom of it. Provide all the proof you have that you were paying direct, case closed etc. being proactive is a lot better then giving up your job which limits you being able to support not only yourself, but your child in the future to.

DUTR

Shoesie wrote: »

Thanks for the replies

We didn't simply ignore the CSA we advised them we wanted to have our own arrangement and they stopped contacting me. I presume they stopped contacting her too. I certainly was not aware if they were.

The payments were not only in my mind as I paid by standing order and so can get the proof if required. I'm just not sure if the courts will care.

The fact I have to pay twice and the ex benefits twice is ridiculous. How its not considered benefit fraud on her part I don't know.

If this was truly considered as fair and just why did they change the rules (complete reverse).

Its to a point that I now have to seriously consider if I can continue to work.

Did you get it in writing that you have the all clear for direct payments?

In the old days of csa1 then yes to give up work was a 50/50 option, but on CSA2 for the case of up 25% net, I don't believe that argument washes anymore, other personal life factors would come into play.

kevin137

I would think that it is not as simple as you think, you could not simply state to the CSA we want a private arrangement when benefits where involved, so it is NOT your choice to make...

I know the CSA can be an extrememly useless bunch of halfwits at the best of times, but again, without an answer, you should never assume that was the end of it...!!!

Apply for your Data, using a SAR's request, and it should show ALL letters from them they say they sent you and ALL letters you sent them as well as recordings of phone calls money paid etc etc...

Go through all this, and deal with it from that, i'm not saying you didn't pay, but it is only in your mind to say this, and it is hard to get your head around, but you BOTH agreed to a private agreement, which to be fair, and again, only you know, was probably LESS than you would of been paying through the CSA...

So think about what the assessment was, and how much you where paying, and then ask yourself, WHY it was less you where paying, who suggested it, and the benefits to you both...

To you it was less money to her, and for her it was more money on top of benefit... SO it was not just her that committed a fraud, but the both of you because it benefitted you, and this is where the problems will start, as if they go after her, then she can easily say you suggested it, and she didn't know any better etc, the same way you can say that you didn't know and she suggested it...

Unfortunately the law is clear, she was on benefit at the time, and you HAD to pay through the CSA so in the eyes of the law, regardless of you paying, the money is still owed, and if you can't sort it with the CSA, then either YOU have to suck it up, or you need to address the situation with her as she was the only person who received money that wasn't due.. So ask yourself, if you consider the debt to be owed, would you ask her and if necessary take her to court to get the money back so you can pay the CSA...??? If the answer is no, then you have no choice but to pay...!!!

FBaby

Unfortunately, it sounds like your misunderstanding of the system is now hunting you. You've made two errors: The first one as stated was your assumption that you could make a private arrangement and just needed to inform csa. Until recently, this was not possible as your ex, if on benefits, was only entitled to claim £20 of the money you were providing, the rest was going towards the benefits she claimed, so during all that time, she received more than she was entitled to. It is highly unlikely she wouldn't have known that....

The second error you've made was to assume that because you had some shared care arrangement, you didn't need to pay maintenance. If she claimed child benefit for the child/ren, then maintenance would have been owned (albeit at a reduced rate).

I'm afraid if you can only show that you paid for a few months, you might be in trouble and trying to balance what you should have paid considering all the changes that have taken place during that time, and taking out what you can prove you have paid privately is not going to be straight forward.