We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.

This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.

Debate House Prices


In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non MoneySaving matters are no longer permitted. This includes wider debates about general house prices, the economy and politics. As a result, we have taken the decision to keep this board permanently closed, but it remains viewable for users who may find some useful information in it. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

Co-Op Rescue plan launched

2456

Comments

  • TruckerT
    TruckerT Posts: 1,714 Forumite
    Given the angst and scrutiny over the banking industry in recent years, how the !!!! did the Co-op's problems go undetected?

    I guess we'll have to blame poor old Gordon Brown again...

    Trucker
    According to Clapton, I am a totally ignorant idiot.
  • CLAPTON
    CLAPTON Posts: 41,865 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    TruckerT wrote: »
    Given the angst and scrutiny over the banking industry in recent years, how the !!!! did the Co-op's problems go undetected?

    I guess we'll have to blame poor old Gordon Brown again...

    Trucker


    probably have to blame people who took out loans under false pretenses

    I took out a self-certificated mortgage about 8 years ago which I needed in order to sort out my life. I gave a completely fictitious story about my income etc, and walked away with an offer.

    When I sold the house I was in negative equity.

    TruckerT
  • TruckerT
    TruckerT Posts: 1,714 Forumite
    CLAPTON wrote: »
    probably have to blame people who took out loans under false pretenses

    and repaid them in accordance with the agreement?

    TruckerT
    According to Clapton, I am a totally ignorant idiot.
  • thor
    thor Posts: 5,512 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts
    Funny how the people at the top managed to get away with a shed load of dosh despite being incompetent at their jobs.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/jun/17/coop-bank-six-executives-responsible

    I mean some of them retired yet are still sitting on a number of Boards and Directorships. Do they actually do anything?(apart from wreaking their companies).
    There is a war on dole scroungers but these chancers are far worse. They get much more money, do massive harm yet can do so with the knowledge that it is all legal.

    Plus weren't the mutuals supposed to be above all the shenanigans of their banking cousins? They were supposed to be helping their members by ploughing their profits back into their products as they had no shareholders to pay dividends to.
    If that was the case then why does the Brittania/Co op offer truly lousy saving rates? Maybe profits were hoovered up by the bosses who have managed to give themselves huge pay rises for failing?
  • IronWolf
    IronWolf Posts: 6,445 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    TruckerT wrote: »
    Given the angst and scrutiny over the banking industry in recent years, how the !!!! did the Co-op's problems go undetected?

    I guess we'll have to blame poor old Gordon Brown again...

    Trucker

    Its problems havent gone undetected. The ratings agencies downgraded its bonds to junk a long time ago
    Faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
  • antrobus
    antrobus Posts: 17,386 Forumite
    IronWolf wrote: »
    Its problems havent gone undetected. The ratings agencies downgraded its bonds to junk a long time ago

    They've just downgraded them again.

    The ratings of the Co-op's senior unsecured debt and deposits were both lowered to Caa1 from Ba3l the bank's financial strength rating was cut to E from E+. Moody's noted the 'material risk' that the bank would impose burden sharing on bondholders.

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/06/18/uk-co-op-ratings-idUKBRE95H08Y20130618

    I'd guess this means that there is a rating lower than 'junk'. Super-junk? :)
  • wotsthat
    wotsthat Posts: 11,325 Forumite
    Thrugelmir wrote: »
    and the banking division......
    The Co-op Bank has suffered a tough period. In March, the bank reported a £673.7m loss for the year to 31 December 2012

    2013's results aren't going to be good either.

    The Co-op group makes ample profit to allow them to cover these losses and fill the capital hole.

    They've chosen to keep the profit and share the losses.

    They weren't forced into banking. A spokesman said their ethical credentials would be unaffected by the bail-in - looks like that bird had flown already.
  • pqrdef
    pqrdef Posts: 4,552 Forumite
    Well if I held Co-op pibs I'd want an administrator or receiver in. I'd want a recognition that the bank belongs to the creditors and the Co-op no longer gets to call the shots.

    This LME lark seems to be designed to ensure that nobody representing the creditors gets to go through the books and find out what's really been going on.
    "It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis
  • pqrdef
    pqrdef Posts: 4,552 Forumite
    Graham_Devon wrote: »
    The bondholders have to agree to this deal, and it appears they are not very forthcoming.
    The Co-op will play divide and rule. The offer will be pitched to be attractive enough to 51% of the votes.
    "It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis
  • antrobus
    antrobus Posts: 17,386 Forumite
    wotsthat wrote: »
    The Co-op group makes ample profit to allow them to cover these losses and fill the capital hole.....

    I'm not so sure about that. The Co-Op Group made a big loss last year. OK, a lot of that as down to the Bank itself, but the 'Trading Group' - the Three Fs, food, pharmacy, and funerals - doesn't appear to make more than about £300m, and that's before tax and the 'significant items' that seem to regularly crop up.

    The Co-Op Group would struggle to find £1 bn from its own resources unless it sold something like the funeral care business.
    wotsthat wrote: »
    ...They've chosen to keep the profit and share the losses.

    The Co-Op does appear to be attempting to have it's cake and eat it.
This discussion has been closed.
★ ★ ★ Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 352.3K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253.6K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 454.3K Spending & Discounts
  • 245.3K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 601K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 177.5K Life & Family
  • 259.1K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.7K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.
Update Your Picture