The Great 'Medical Tourism' Hunt

chinup_3

errr, just to say i've had the 'pleasure' of having what i later found out were totally unneccessary fillings not once but TWICE by UK NHS dentists. once as a child, which lets face it toothsmith was endemic circa 30 + yrs ago. and then c5 yrs ago. I can only presume they, especially more recently, had a big staff wage bill to pay perhaps ? dentists are one of those trades where we pretty much have to trust what we are being told + shown: sadly the trust is still not always being rewarded. now we are hearing about the credibility of foriegn consultants from yourself ! ps- can't help admiring my local dentists 550 amg merc saloon when i drive past: much roomier surely than the new tvr he had last time.

rac_3

Toothsmith wrote: »

Admittedly there are a few dentists out there charging private prices, yet still bashing out the volume. I object to this as much as dental tourism.

You still havnt answered my central point. If I can have it done elsewhere, cheaper than, and to the same standard as in the UK AND have a holiday to boot, whats the problem?

OK so a foreign economy benefits a little, and UK dental clinics miss out on a little income (its not like they need the work).

Its not my fault the NHS/Goverment is in such a pickle, I have to react to the circumstances I find.

Where's the crime, exactly?

Denzelpuppy

This is for Toothsmith really but feel free for anyone else to contribute as they see fit, whilst on my "Dental Tourism " jolly last week to Budapest, my Dentist who happened to be a Proffessor od dentistry and was also licsenced to practice in the USA told me that they have not used Amalgam fillings in Hungary for 20yrs as they are dangerous and leak into the jaw bone and gums and cause associated health problems with the mercury and aluminuum and that they use composite or bonded fillings or Inlays, so my question is and I'm not being sarcastic i genuinley want to know is this true and if it is true why do we continue to use them in the UK?

ooobedoo

Is anybody having a go at GP's??????

Mr Ooob is currently studying to be a dental hygienist and it is so hard, has he not got the right to earn a good wage after he graduates? After all the study he has to do, the responsibility he will have-and he's not even goin gto be a dentist!!! We don't moan about GP's getting the massive amount they do, and there isn't much difference in the length of time training. I think the important thing to remember that the biggest problem is NHS who have neglected the dental element for years. I was with an NHS dentist who later went private and now he has more time to actually spend with me, working on brushing techniques, talking to my son about tooth education, and seeing him free. Ok, so I pay £15 a month(or thereabouts) on denplan but I would rather do that than get a hefty bill. I would rather pay that than get herded out of his surgery so the next person can get herded in.

Toothsmith

Denzelpuppy wrote: »

This is for Toothsmith really but feel free for anyone else to contribute as they see fit, whilst on my "Dental Tourism " jolly last week to Budapest, my Dentist who happened to be a Proffessor od dentistry and was also licsenced to practice in the USA told me that they have not used Amalgam fillings in Hungary for 20yrs as they are dangerous and leak into the jaw bone and gums and cause associated health problems with the mercury and aluminuum and that they use composite or bonded fillings or Inlays, so my question is and I'm not being sarcastic i genuinley want to know is this true and if it is true why do we continue to use them in the UK?

It's continued to be used in the UK because there is no evidence that it causes any harm.

Nowadays there are better materials to use. The problem with amalgam is that a hole for it needs to have certain dimensions in order for it to be strong enough to last. Amalgam is not good at filling tiny holes.

White fillings fill tiny holes much better than amalgam - so if you find a tiny hole white filling is the stuff to go for.

If you have a big hole, then the shrinkage of white filling on setting means that a big blob of it will almost certainly shrink enough to start off a tiny leak somewhere - which means the filling will soon fail. There are ways to minimise this shrinkage - but they all take a lot of time which racks up the bill.

So - small holes in fresh tooth (E.g early fillings in children) go for white every time.

Big fillings, or fillings in mouths with a lot of decay, or if replacing amalgam fillings due to wear or doing fillings in people who can't keep still for very long - then amalgam is the material of choice.

If you want good looking big fillings then you need to go for porcelain or ceramic inlays - but again - these are expensive and need to be done well in order to last.

Dentists who bang on about health risks of amalgam are just jumping on a bandwagon. People ingest more mercury from eating fish than they ever will from a mouthful of fillings. Try asking such dentists about the health risks of BIS-GMA (The organic resin in white fillings). Dentistry does not have a 'safe' filling material. All the materials we have have something in them that in other situations, or very high doses has been shown to harm something or other.

I have amalgam fillings in my mouth.

If they needed replacing - would probably have the same again, as the oldest is 30 yrs old, and still looks good.

I am still happy to work with amalgam - although I use much less of it than I used to. This is for the reasons above though, and the fact that having escaped the NHS, I can now use the most appropriate materials for my patients and not just the ones Gordon Brown will pay for!

Toothsmith

chinup wrote: »

errr, just to say i've had the 'pleasure' of having what i later found out were totally unneccessary fillings not once but TWICE by UK NHS dentists. once as a child, which lets face it toothsmith was endemic circa 30 + yrs ago. and then c5 yrs ago. I can only presume they, especially more recently, had a big staff wage bill to pay perhaps ? dentists are one of those trades where we pretty much have to trust what we are being told + shown: sadly the trust is still not always being rewarded. now we are hearing about the credibility of foriegn consultants from yourself ! ps- can't help admiring my local dentists 550 amg merc saloon when i drive past: much roomier surely than the new tvr he had last time.

I haven't questioned the credibility of any dentists.

My posts on this board are always directed at helping people distinguish between dentists who are trying to do a good job, and those that are playing whatever system they happen to work under to the detrement of the patient.

It doesn't always work that cheap is good and expensive is bad - and it certainly isn't always true that the most expensive is always the best.

I don't care if guys operating in Eastern Europe are the greatest technical dentists ever created. If they think they can see a dental disaster, make it look wonderful with wall to wall porcelain and then send the patient home never to have a dental problem again then they are deluded.

And this is happening all the time in these places.

Unless you have a good few months AT LEAST (years would be better) of stabalising such patients, changing their habits, addressing their problems, educating them and making sure they can look after such advanced work, then at the very best you are taking a risk with their future health, and at worst you are being negligent.

As I said - I have no problems with people who visit a particular country frequently receiving dental care there.

But going off on a holiday and having £x thousand of dental work done is just plain silly. Even if it is excellent work.

There is a lot of work that isn't.

As coincidence would have it, today my associate saw an indian lady who is the mother of one of our hospital consultants here. 78 yrs old, very clever, and she had some work done in Mumbai (Bombay in old money - I'm not sure if I spelt Mumbai correctly). Nothing wrong in that - she is indian, and goes there regularly. But it was !!!!!!!

She had been provided with several crowns on her upper teeth, several were linked together for some unknown reason, 4 were falling off, one still looked like a temporary and bits of decay in some of her lower teeth had been completely ignored.

Due to her age, and the fact that the !!!!!! ones weren't actually giving trouble, we're only replacing the stuff that's falling off or 'temporary' and fixing the decay. We don't want to stir anything up under the other stuff!

The grass is not always greener where the dentists are cheap!

Peoples efforts would be much better directed finding a reasonably priced dentist in this country who can provide continuity of care - and would be just down the road if anything went nasty - and would be under the juristiction of British law if anything serious ever happened!

theredfox_2

Unless you have a good few months AT LEAST (years would be better) of stabalising such patients, changing their habits, addressing their problems, educating them and making sure they can look after such advanced work, then at the very best you are taking a risk with their future health, and at worst you are being negligent.

Whats that supposed to mean? Stabilise? Habits?
Its just nonsense. Dentists aren't educators or philosophers, and most averagely educated people understand how to look after their teeth: avoid sugar, brush them, floss them, nuke the bacteria with strong mouthwash (makes a big difference - I recommend it highly), and thats all there is to it. And I didn't charge £500 for that wisdom. And no doubt, the months of the more "professional" blah blah blah would cost lots of money.

Anecdotal stories are not very worth very much particularly - I'm sure there are plenty of UK bad stories and have 1 or 2 myself - but see little purpose in recounting them. And people disagree about amalgam - consult the homeopathic fraternity and you will find dramatic stories testifying to its problems, making people ill.

Theres bad and good everywhere, less advanced countries require a little more caution and research, but the difference between £400 and £1800 is massive, its even more when considering places like Thailand or India, and I maintain what I said about the economics of private in relation to the NHS.

You're pulling the wool over no one's eyes. Dental holidays are a fantastic idea, and I welcome more stories and information on how and where to pursue them. My guess is, dentists are getting worried about this because they can see how attractive it is to people fed up with paying large amounts of money. Tough: it's called market economics, and its how exploitative transactions get levelled.

Toothsmith

theredfox wrote: »

Dental holidays are a fantastic idea

Just bu££er off on one then

rac_3

rac wrote: »

You still havnt answered my central point. If I can have it done elsewhere, cheaper than, and to the same standard as in the UK AND have a holiday to boot, whats the problem?

OK so a foreign economy benefits a little, and UK dental clinics miss out on a little income (its not like they need the work).

Its not my fault the NHS/Goverment is in such a pickle, I have to react to the circumstances I find.

Where's the crime, exactly?

Toothsmith?

Your not going to answer are you?

Its OK, I understand.

Just take a deep breath, relax, and whisper the words...

"I, toothsmith am wrong, and I apologise"

There, feel better now?

theredfox_2

Toothsmith wrote: »

Just bu££er off on one then

I intend to.
I've heard good reports about these:

http://www.silomdental.com/index.html
http://www.sih.co.th/dental.htm

But South Africa might make a nicer holiday because I'm a country-mountain kinda guy rather than city guy, so I'm particularly interested in hearing about it. And also Goa, which I fancy visiting. Any information on these?