green vs cheap travel

EmmaJ_3

Not sure whether this should be in the travel board or here - I thought here as I'm not looking for specific prices etc just an idea of how to go about this.

Over new year I'm going ski-ing with a group of friends, so far we've just booked a self-catering chalet in Chamonix direct with the owners. At the moment the plan is to watch the BMIbaby website and pick up cheap Cardiff-Geneva flights as soon as they become available.

However this isn't sitting easy with my green conscience! I'm trying to change my way of living to greener/ethical-er/MSE-er. So I'm thinking of making my own way there in a greener manner (perhaps OH too, that's up to him) and meeting everyone in Geneva, we're booking a minibus to pick us up there and take us to the chalet (with a 'carbon-neutral' company that offset their emissions, apparently).

What would be the best option green-wise? (will consider this against the financial cost to work out best 'value'!)
1. Train all the way Cardiff-London-Paris-Geneva
2. Coach Cardiff-London, Train London-Paris-Geneva
3. Coach all the way Cardiff-London-Paris-Geneva (takes horribly long though - not keen)
4. Train Cardiff-Dover, Ferry Dover-Calais, Train Calais-Geneva
5. Just go with the cheap flight and pay a carbon neutral scheme to offset it.

All going together in a few cars isn't an option, all the others just want the quick & cheap flight option. There might be a few I could persuade to do it my way. But still don't fancy a 14 hour drive.

FemmeAuFoyer

I saw a table recently of all transport and how "green" it was. In your case, train is the best option. (Walking and cycling being the top of the list of course!)

EmmaJ_3

Lol might have to leave very early in the morning to cycle there

Thanks I wasn't sure if ferries or coaches were 'better' than trains.

I'm thinking of going with train - but might coach it to London depending on train fares (megabus Cardiff-London is £1 if far enough in advance).

OH has had a go at me for being 'divisive' as this is a group trip and me making my own greener way there is making a statement that I don't approve of others choices.......

hardpressed

EmmaJ wrote: »

Lol might have to leave very early in the morning to cycle there

Thanks I wasn't sure if ferries or coaches were 'better' than trains.

I'm thinking of going with train - but might coach it to London depending on train fares (megabus Cardiff-London is £1 if far enough in advance).

OH has had a go at me for being 'divisive' as this is a group trip and me making my own greener way there is making a statement that I don't approve of others choices.......

That's a difficult one, it could put a damper on the holiday if they thought that. Could you go with the group this time and make an extra effort to be green for the rest of the year? Perhaps you could persuade them next time round to look at something a bit more envioromental friendly.

Mids_Costcutter

Emma - rail is a much more energy efficient form of transport than road and hence produces fewer carbon emissions. From the EU's Transport White Paper (European transport policy for 2010: time to decide):

"The weight of goods which can be moved one kilometre by one litre of fuel, the figure for road haulage is 50 tonnes, for rail haulage 97 tonnes and for inland waterways 127 tonnes"

Re: planning a trip from London by rail I'd recommend the excellent Man in Seat Sixty-One web site. Visit: http://www.seat61.com/France.htm#Alps

You could take a sleeper train direct from Paris to Chamonix and be on the slopes well before your friends arriving by air! Alternatively check the Switzerland pages for options to Geneva. With Eurostar there are group discounts for 10+. Try to convince your friends that the holiday starts once they get on the train. Good luck and bon voyage!

cepheus

Mids_Costcutter wrote: »

"The weight of goods which can be moved one kilometre by one litre of fuel, the figure for road haulage is 50 tonnes, for rail haulage 97 tonnes and for inland waterways 127 tonnes"

This is for goods haulage not people.

However, overall I agree that catching the electric train all the way Cardiff-London-Paris-Geneva is the best method because the energy source will be mainly natural gas in this country and nuclear in France.

Be warned however, the train is not always the best option, outside peak times road travel can be best in energy terms providing the coach or car is almost full. However, CO2 emissions cannot be avoided even when using biofuels.

Mids_Costcutter

Cepheus - point taken (on goods transport), but the aim was to illustrate energy efficiency. The source of electricity generation is of course significant. Have you come across any stats on the energy efficiency for passenger transport?

halia

I'd go by train and laugh it off with the rest of the group - if they are your friends they won't give a toss about how you got there! Can you persuade one other member to go by train too - maybe a good GF and make it a girly trip enjoying the sights by train.

cepheus

Mids_Costcutter wrote: »

Cepheus - point taken (on goods transport), but the aim was to illustrate energy efficiency. The source of electricity generation is of course significant. Have you come across any stats on the energy efficiency for passenger transport?

I cannot find the original article, but this will link to a discussion on this issue. Roger Kemp has carried out some work on the relative comparison of emissions from air, rail and road this so it may be worth a Google. However bear in mind that the global warming potential of air travel could be a lot higher than the CO2 emissions suggest.

http://www.cambridgeenergy.com/event-2007-02-08.htm

ailuro2

You could imply that you have developed a fear of flying-

or, I'd go with you just want to extend the holiday feeling a little longer by taking the train-gorgeous scenery in winter etc.- persuade a few of them to come with you one way? If they came with you one way then you could maybe all fly back together- it depends on how long your break is. You may find if you come up with a reasonable price and do the work for them they would try it?

TimothyEBaldwin

Mids_Costcutter wrote: »

Re: planning a trip from London by rail I'd recommend the excellent Man in Seat Sixty-One web site. Visit: http://www.seat61.com/France.htm#Alps

You could take a sleeper train direct from Paris to Chamonix and be on the slopes well before your friends arriving by air! Alternatively check the Switzerland pages for options to Geneva. With Eurostar there are group discounts for 10+. Try to convince your friends that the holiday starts once they get on the train. Good luck and bon voyage!

I'll second that, but note that the sleeper doesn't go all the way to Chamonix, you have to change at St-Gervais-les-Bains where the sleeper terminates at 8:28.

If you get to Paris from the UK early, and return late you will be able to spend a day and a half in Paris. Or if you prefer, London. Overall there is the potential to save the cost of 3 nights accommodation for the same length of holiday, taking the train may be cheaper.

With a journey time of 7-8 hours each way (excluding the sleeper train and time in Paris), travel time is not much longer than flying once airport procedures and transfers are accounted for.

Left-luggage office and lockers and (according to the signs) showers are available at Paris Nord station. When using a left luggage office you can often save money by attaching items together.

Beware of pick-pockets on the Paris Metro; I had my wallet stolen last year.

I suggest you speak to Rail Europe and First Great Western about a group booking. You check times at: http://plannerint.b-rail.be/, but check British times against a British source.

You can also buy tickets online at http://www.voyages-sncf.com/, but be aware that it is cheaper to pay in Euros, it does not consider routes requiring more than one change, overcharges on some routes with a change (book each train separately), and fails to sell the discounted advance tickets for some international trains (not Eurostar).

PS. Taking a sleeper train to Geneva means getting up very early for a change of trains and leaving the EU, with potential customs issues.