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Copy of contract between UKPC and Bucks Healthcare Trust here...
Philter
Posts: 25 Forumite
EDIT (11/6/13) UKPC have threatened https://www.whatdotheyknow.com with legal action for publishing the contract between UKPC and Bucks Healthcare Trust (the Trust used the website to respond to an FOI request by G Bozzino). https://www.whatdotheyknow.com have (hopefully temporarily) removed the entire request and response, including the contract, whilst they consider their legal position.
FAO UKPC: I know that you are reading this thread. I have a copy of the contract, which I obtained via email from Bucks Healthcare Trust prior to its publication on https://www.whatdotheyknow.com. The Trust had tried to say that it had a Section 41 (commercial in confidence) exemption, but I pointed out to them that as it is the product of a negotiation between 2 parties it is not; hence they had to release it, which they did. I will be using it when I write to the Chief Exec of the Trust, as well as the OFT, Trading Standards, and my MP, to point out to them several areas in which the contract is unlawful. It's a good thing that you have indemnified the Trust against any legal action arising from the contract, because I suspect there will be some.
Hi all,
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/contract_with_uk_parking_control#incoming-393359
Above is a FOI response from Bucks Healthcare Trust where they've provided a copy of the contract between themselves and UKPC. The Trust posted it on the public FOI website https://www.whatdotheyknow.com. I'm not the G Bozzino who made the request, but I've been in correspondence with the Trust since February via email. G Bozzino has been corresponding with them about a similar situation.
The Trust initially refused to release the contract saying that it was commercial in confidence and had a section 41 exemption, but I pointed out to them that this was not the case, and that if they didn't provide a copy of the contract I would go to the Information Commissioner; they buckled and emailed me a copy of the contract hours before the deadline I'd given them expired, and then posted it at https://www.whatdotheyknow.com in response to G Bozzino's request.
UKPC provides a self-ticketing service for the 3 hospitals owned by the Trust (Stoke Mandeville, Wycombe, and Amersham). The Trust and UKPC have gone down the route of saying that the parking charges (£60 down to £30) reflect actual loss to UKPC (UKPC's admin and office costs). It's been pointed out that these charges cannot possibly reflect actual loss, because there are no admin and office charges at the point at which the contract has been breached, and that UKPC are not the landowners and can therefore suffer no loss. However when I put in another FOI request asking that they clarify these 'admin and office' costs and pointing out to them the problems with their position they just said that they'd already answered the question.
Interestingly, before G Bozzino made their FOI request the parking charges at Stoke Mandeville were £60 reducible to £30 if paid within 14 days, but at Wycombe Hospital were £100 reducible to £60 if paid within 14 days. When asked why there was a difference in the parking charges if they reflected the same loss (UKPC's admin and office charges) the Trust said that there had been a mistake and that the charges at Wycombe Hospital should have been £60 reducible to £30. They've now corrected all the signage at Wycombe Hospital by putting little stickers over the £100 to change them to £60. I think it would be worth putting in an FOI request asking how many people had paid the incorrect charge of £100 over the years, and if they were now going to be compensated.
Unfortunately personal circumstances now mean that I can't spend any more time following this up, but here are the email addresses of the relevant people, should anyone else want to, obviously you can also make an FOI request to them via https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/buckinghamshire_healthcare_nhs_trust
Chief Exec (Anne Eden), Bucks Healthcare Trust -
anne.eden@buckshealthcare.nhs.uk
FOI Lead (Kriss Jordan) - bhinfo@buckshealthcare.nhs.uk
Head of the Executive Office (Fiona Clark) - Fiona.Clark@buckshealthcare.nhs.uk
Associate Director Estates & Facilities (Leigh Adams) - leigh.adams@buckshealthcare.nhs.uk
Information Governance Manager (Anne Chilcott) -
Anne.Chilcott@buckshealthcare.nhs.uk
UKPC Customer Liaison Department and Appeals Manager -
lorraine@ukparkingcontrol.com
Interesting points from the contract:
1. It's not dated.
2. It costs the Trust nothing.
3. The Trust get 10% of PCN revenue, paid along with a 'commission statement'.
4. UKPC are authorised by the Trust to "commence with legal action to pursue any outstanding debt..."
5. It's a rolling contract, and either party may terminate it with one month's notice.
6. UKPC must at all times be able to demonstrate compliance with the BPA's code of practice.
7. The contract uses the term 'illegally parked vehicles'.
8. There is no reference to UKPC having any proprietary interest in the land.
I received a PCN back in January at Stoke Mandeville Hospital for parking for 40 minutes without paying. I wrote to the Trust and offered them £1.50 by way of liquidated damages (the cost of parking for 1 hour). They effectively refused it, so I wrote to UKPC telling them that I had offered the landowner liquidated damages and also detailed why I thought the charge was void, and they wrote back saying they had cancelled the PCN 'as a gesture of goodwill'. I've since been emailing the Trust pointing out why I think their PCN system is unlawful. I've been emailing the FOI lead, but have been copying in the Chief Exec and others.
FAO UKPC: I know that you are reading this thread. I have a copy of the contract, which I obtained via email from Bucks Healthcare Trust prior to its publication on https://www.whatdotheyknow.com. The Trust had tried to say that it had a Section 41 (commercial in confidence) exemption, but I pointed out to them that as it is the product of a negotiation between 2 parties it is not; hence they had to release it, which they did. I will be using it when I write to the Chief Exec of the Trust, as well as the OFT, Trading Standards, and my MP, to point out to them several areas in which the contract is unlawful. It's a good thing that you have indemnified the Trust against any legal action arising from the contract, because I suspect there will be some.
Hi all,
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/contract_with_uk_parking_control#incoming-393359
Above is a FOI response from Bucks Healthcare Trust where they've provided a copy of the contract between themselves and UKPC. The Trust posted it on the public FOI website https://www.whatdotheyknow.com. I'm not the G Bozzino who made the request, but I've been in correspondence with the Trust since February via email. G Bozzino has been corresponding with them about a similar situation.
The Trust initially refused to release the contract saying that it was commercial in confidence and had a section 41 exemption, but I pointed out to them that this was not the case, and that if they didn't provide a copy of the contract I would go to the Information Commissioner; they buckled and emailed me a copy of the contract hours before the deadline I'd given them expired, and then posted it at https://www.whatdotheyknow.com in response to G Bozzino's request.
UKPC provides a self-ticketing service for the 3 hospitals owned by the Trust (Stoke Mandeville, Wycombe, and Amersham). The Trust and UKPC have gone down the route of saying that the parking charges (£60 down to £30) reflect actual loss to UKPC (UKPC's admin and office costs). It's been pointed out that these charges cannot possibly reflect actual loss, because there are no admin and office charges at the point at which the contract has been breached, and that UKPC are not the landowners and can therefore suffer no loss. However when I put in another FOI request asking that they clarify these 'admin and office' costs and pointing out to them the problems with their position they just said that they'd already answered the question.
Interestingly, before G Bozzino made their FOI request the parking charges at Stoke Mandeville were £60 reducible to £30 if paid within 14 days, but at Wycombe Hospital were £100 reducible to £60 if paid within 14 days. When asked why there was a difference in the parking charges if they reflected the same loss (UKPC's admin and office charges) the Trust said that there had been a mistake and that the charges at Wycombe Hospital should have been £60 reducible to £30. They've now corrected all the signage at Wycombe Hospital by putting little stickers over the £100 to change them to £60. I think it would be worth putting in an FOI request asking how many people had paid the incorrect charge of £100 over the years, and if they were now going to be compensated.
Unfortunately personal circumstances now mean that I can't spend any more time following this up, but here are the email addresses of the relevant people, should anyone else want to, obviously you can also make an FOI request to them via https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/buckinghamshire_healthcare_nhs_trust
Chief Exec (Anne Eden), Bucks Healthcare Trust -
anne.eden@buckshealthcare.nhs.uk
FOI Lead (Kriss Jordan) - bhinfo@buckshealthcare.nhs.uk
Head of the Executive Office (Fiona Clark) - Fiona.Clark@buckshealthcare.nhs.uk
Associate Director Estates & Facilities (Leigh Adams) - leigh.adams@buckshealthcare.nhs.uk
Information Governance Manager (Anne Chilcott) -
Anne.Chilcott@buckshealthcare.nhs.uk
UKPC Customer Liaison Department and Appeals Manager -
lorraine@ukparkingcontrol.com
Interesting points from the contract:
1. It's not dated.
2. It costs the Trust nothing.
3. The Trust get 10% of PCN revenue, paid along with a 'commission statement'.
4. UKPC are authorised by the Trust to "commence with legal action to pursue any outstanding debt..."
5. It's a rolling contract, and either party may terminate it with one month's notice.
6. UKPC must at all times be able to demonstrate compliance with the BPA's code of practice.
7. The contract uses the term 'illegally parked vehicles'.
8. There is no reference to UKPC having any proprietary interest in the land.
I received a PCN back in January at Stoke Mandeville Hospital for parking for 40 minutes without paying. I wrote to the Trust and offered them £1.50 by way of liquidated damages (the cost of parking for 1 hour). They effectively refused it, so I wrote to UKPC telling them that I had offered the landowner liquidated damages and also detailed why I thought the charge was void, and they wrote back saying they had cancelled the PCN 'as a gesture of goodwill'. I've since been emailing the Trust pointing out why I think their PCN system is unlawful. I've been emailing the FOI lead, but have been copying in the Chief Exec and others.
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Comments
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If the trust get 10% of the revenue, then I cannot see how this is a genuine pre-estimate of loss. UKPC are not allowed to add an arbitrary percentage on top of their own loss as commission; this would make it a penalty.
If it's not on top of their own loss, then they actually lose money with each ticket issued.
Of course, this is all over and above the supposition that the original fee is a genuine pre-estimate of loss anyway, which it clearly is not.Dedicated to driving up standards in parking0 -
If the trust get 10% of the revenue, then I cannot see how this is a genuine pre-estimate of loss. UKPC are not allowed to add an arbitrary percentage on top of their own loss as commission; this would make it a penalty.
If it's not on top of their own loss, then they actually lose money with each ticket issued.
Of course, this is all over and above the supposition that the original fee is a genuine pre-estimate of loss anyway, which it clearly is not.
If you look on the FAQs on the UKPC website about their 'service' they actually call the income from PCNs 'revenue' so they are stuffed.
Philter that is great information and many thanks for all this hard work and for posting it.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Coupon-mad wrote: »If you look on the FAQs on the UKPC website about their 'service' they actually call the income from PCNs 'revenue' so they are stuffed.
Philter that is great information and many thanks for all this hard work and for posting it.
Thank you
I'd love for the Trust to now receive several emails from people asking them to explain themselves and justify their unlawful position... 0 -
And what is road tax got anything to do with them exactly?When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
We don't need the following to help you.
Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
:beer: Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member :beer:0 -
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UKPC have threatened https://www.whatdotheyknow.com with legal action for publishing the contract between UKPC and Bucks Healthcare Trust (the Trust used the website to respond to an FOI request by G Bozzino). https://www.whatdotheyknow.com have (hopefully temporarily) removed the entire request and response, including the contract, whilst they consider their legal position.
FAO UKPC: I know that you are reading this thread. I have a copy of the contract, which I obtained via email from Bucks Healthcare Trust prior to its publication on https://www.whatdotheyknow.com. The Trust had tried to say that it had a Section 41 (commercial in confidence) exemption, but I pointed out to them that as it is the product of a negotiation between 2 parties it is not; hence they had to release it, which they did. I will be using it when I write to the Chief Exec of the Trust, as well as the OFT, Trading Standards, and my MP, to point out to them several areas in which the contract is unlawful. It's a good thing that you have indemnified the Trust against any legal action arising from the contract, because I suspect there will be some.0 -
UKPC are full of empty threats. remember when those photos of cars taken by a UKPC operative were published by nutsville? UKPC and their legal eagles promised all kinds of retribution, but the pictures are still up there on the website, together with the threatening letter from the solicitors who can't decide if they are talking about a civil or criminal matter.What part of "A whop bop-a-lu a whop bam boo" don't you understand?0
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Philter what did ukpc Say?
Ukpc speak more cr*p then comes out of a cows rear endProud to be a member of the Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Gang.:D:T0 -
Poor UKPC, thinks they are above the Freedom of Information act now?0
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