the solution to economic woes:

RJP33

Generali wrote: »

It's a great idea IMHO. Instead of wasting money on dope fiends and heroin addicts better to spend money on treating the drinkers that really cause economic and social damage to the UK.

I agree to an extent, certainly dope is a complete waste of time policing and we’d do better taxing it like tobacco.

For things like Heroin, Meth etc I think that has to be off limits because of the harm it causes, with help for users and severe punishments for dealers.

Generali

RJP33 wrote: »

I agree to an extent, certainly dope is a complete waste of time policing and we’d do better taxing it like tobacco.

For things like Heroin, Meth etc I think that has to be off limits because of the harm it causes, with help for users and severe punishments for dealers.

Alcohol causes more problems per user than any other drug according to the stats I've seen in the past.

Tobacco is more addictive than heroin if you measure by likelihood to quit and stay clean. If you are a nicotine addict you have less than a 1% chance of staying off it for a year.

the_flying_pig

Generali wrote: »

Alcohol causes more problems per user than any other drug according to the stats I've seen in the past...

I find that quite hard to believe, to be honest.

I mean, of the [say] couple of hundred or so people of my own age who i vaguely know [to say hello to, at least, I'm obviously not close to most of them], I'd say that all but a couple of them drink alcohol socially and only maybe 5 or so of them have anything even verging on problematic consumption.

Whereas of the half dozen or so people I know who've ever tried heroin, even once [out of a smaller group than the one above since it's not perhaps something one tends to discuss in detail over a dinner table], one is dead & around half of the rest at some point had serious money and/or health problems.

But very strong opiates are probably a bit of a special case.

Generali

the_flying_pig wrote: »

I find that quite hard to believe, to be honest.

I mean, of the [say] couple of hundred or so people of my own age who i vaguely know [to say hello to, at least, I'm obviously not close to most of them], I'd say that all but a couple of them drink alcohol socially and only maybe 5 or so of them have anything even verging on problematic consumption.

Whereas of the half dozen or so people I know who've ever tried heroin, even once [out of a smaller group than the one above since it's not perhaps something one tends to discuss in detail over a dinner table], one is dead & around half of the rest at some point had serious money and/or health problems.

But very strong opiates are probably a bit of a special case.

Well I've tried opiates a small number of times and never had a problem. I also know through a former job in a hospital a lot of people that are addicted to opiates(?) who don't steal or do anything really apart from get pretty uncomfortable if their painkillers are taken away. A good mate got addicted to morphine after being hit by a car aged 18. The only drug problems he's had are with cigarettes and alcohol (for a start both he and the driver were drunk when he got run down).

I know loads of people that have been arrested for petty crime or fighting or just being incapacitated while drunk. Despite quite a druggy past the most of the people I know who really messed themselves up with drugs were those with underlying mental health issues and people who got arrested for possession or selling.

My mate's brother od'd and there are some other bad stories but nothing like the carnage alcohol causes.

the_flying_pig

Generali wrote: »

Well I've tried opiates a small number of times...

for reasons that make no sense my strong reaction to that was one of envy.

padington

RJP33 wrote: »

I agree to an extent, certainly dope is a complete waste of time policing and we’d do better taxing it like tobacco.

For things like Heroin, Meth etc I think that has to be off limits because of the harm it causes, with help for users and severe punishments for dealers.

The harm caused to addicts of heroine, is mainly the contamination of it. Pure Heroin is unique in that it does not damage your internal organs - unless the black market is in control of its distribution and adds highly dangerous addivitives.

Obviously heroin should be strictly prescribed, unlike marjuana which should just have a strict 18 years old control on sales for old school bush weed. The skunk stuff should be prescribed though, we really need to distinguish the two ASAP. However the current solution - allowing the idiots on street corners to have a monopoly on distribution is soo wrong.

A growing group of Tories agree. I know that Tories such as Chris Pattern totally agree in private that for the sake of the health and crime rate of the nation that prohibition is nonsense but say the electorate are not educated sufficiently to have anything else put to them and so it's not something they feel they can openly discuss. If memory serves me correctly Portillo was secretly in that camp around the time he lost his seat. They were saying one thing to the blue rinse brigade and another around the dinner party table.

Understandable in 1997 perhaps ? Less so in 2013 when we need innovate ways to raise taxes and save money and this is screaming us in the face.

I bet Cameron is in the free market camp on this as well, just got no balls.

Thrugelmir

the_flying_pig wrote: »

I mean, of the [say] couple of hundred or so people of my own age who i vaguely know [to say hello to, at least, I'm obviously not close to most of them], I'd say that all but a couple of them drink alcohol socially and only maybe 5 or so of them have anything even verging on problematic consumption.

Liver damage is permanent. Something your body cannot recover from.

padington

We need to take money from somewhere and back British innovation wherever it excels. It's pretty simple. Where to take it from? Lets start with the drug dealers, it's a no brainer. That cash alone would allow every great idea to be backed financially like no other national innovation push has ever done before in peacetime.

Also it would not have a negative effect to the markets, actually they would love it. Whilst we could monitor and safeguard and inform and learn things from our drug user community better than any that have ever lived.

globalds

we could become a mighty exporting nation once again ..

the_flying_pig

globalds wrote: »

we could become a mighty exporting nation once again ..

mm, not so sure.

it's essentially a tropical plant, much cheaper & easier to grow it elsewhere.

it's only really the illegality of it and consequent upwards pressure on prices that makes UK growing economic.