We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum... Read More »
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
Dealing with someone else's debt, when debtor is mentally ill [Lowells]
kloana
Posts: 431 Forumite
This is a long post. The first half is for general context, whereas the second half relates to the actual problem - many thanks for reading.
Background - my mum has had some serious issues with debt in the past, in terms of borrowing amounts that she knew could not be repaid, incurring utilities arrears, and so on. However, she is mentally ill. Certifiably so. She suffers from a range of MH conditions for which she receives treatment, but there are good times, and bad.
She has been 'clean' (no further debts incurred) since around 2008. However, she cannot repay anything/much off her debts (very low income, very high outgoings), and refuses to engage in the process. Receiving correspondence from creditors and DCAs sends her into a tailspin, and she goes into a 'bad place'.
For the past few years, I've managed her debts for her. Not in terms of actually making payments from my own pocket, but in terms of negotiating with creditors, and making sure promised repayment amounts are actually paid.
The picture is as follows:
(NB: Statute Barred dates relate only to date of default, plus 6 years. Some dates will likely be several months earlier, in reality. No payments or acknowledgements have been made on any of these debts for a long time - in the majority of cases several months prior to the recorded date of default):
Hoist (ex British Gas) – £272 – SB 01-08-2014
Few nasty letters over the years, last one from Robinson Way, about 6 months ago.
Provident (ex-Vanquis card) – £606 – SB 31-12-2014
Not bothering her. No letters in years.
HSBC – £600 – SB 14-09-2015
Not bothering her. Never really have.
Lowell (ex Barclaycard) – £1,385 – SB 05-02-2016 (possibly June 2014, as below)
Troublesome, as below.
Welcome Finance - £3,695 - in default since 2011, but being paid @ £20.00 every 4 weeks. Interest frozen. Reviewed every once in a while, but has remained the same for 2 years now. I have a semi-regular battle with them every time this is up for review (I am authorised to deal with the account).
DWP - £1,945.75 - overpayment of benefit (non-fraudulent!) - being repaid @ £15.00 per month, and has been for over a year now. I'm authorised to deal with the account, and the DWP deal only with me, and even correspond to my home address. DWP tried to 'review' this payment in Dec 2012, requesting more, but luckily, they had originally (March 2012) sent a letter confirming that the final payment was to be made in something like the year 2024. I returned a copy of that to them, and complained at the same time, and they've been quiet since. This is not a credit file issue, and is not reported to the CRAs.
Fashion World - £1,600 - in default since 2011, but being paid @ £10.00 every 4 weeks. Similar to Welcome Finance in that whilst interest is frozen, it's bloody hard work keeping it that way. I also exclusively manage this account, and F-World deal only with me.
---
Ironically, my biggest fights are with those who are actually receiving payments! Welcome Finance and Fashion World appear to be in competition for who can be the worst collector, and the DWP are not much better. As I pay these debts, they have been 100% on time, for 2 years (WF and FW), and 1 year (DWP) respectively. I manage my mum's money, and scalp £45.00 per month off the top - with her knowledge - and pay the direct debits via my own bank, to ensure they are paid. I am of course in no way legally liable for their payment, though.
WF and FW both have 'debt and mental health evidence' forms on file, completed by mum's GP, who agreed to provide evidence as to how her MH conditions affect her money management skills. The DWP didn't ask for one. All three also have up-to-date income/expenditure forms on file, which clearly demonstrate why she can't pay more.
The problem is, my mum only has £45 per month to spare, literally, which is used up on WF, FW & DWP. Sometimes less, and I've been known to top it up by the odd few pounds. She does work, but earns just £800 per month - she can't work more than part time due to health concerns, she's tried it, but fell very ill in the process. She doesn't live an extravagant lifestyle. She has no vices, and very few luxuries (well, none).
I thought things were going OK, until Lowell (AKA Red AKA Hamptons Legal) started rearing their ugly head about 6 months ago. They bought the £1,385 debt in 2010 from Barclaycard, and used to send the occasional letter. Now they send one every few weeks, pretending to have passed it on to someone bigger and scarier, who is just a subsidiary of their own group. The letters have been completely ignored, some returned to sender, but they haven't stopped.
The latest letter is from Hamptons, and is the one where they inform of intention to 'consider' legal action, i.e. a CCJ. I'm a bit stuck as to what to do. The debt isn't SB for another 2 years, 9 months (just based on default date), so there's a lot of time for them to pursue it. However, looking at mum's credit file, it would appear as though she last paid Barclaycard in June 2008. I'm pretty certain that she hasn't acknowledged the debt ever since - she certainly hasn't paid - so the true SB date could be around that time in 2014.
The way I see it, Lowell may be panicking as to the relatively close SB date (assuming June 2014 is correct), or they may just be being nasty. Either way, I'm aware that they're not the nicest DCA to deal with!
I now have a few options:
1) continue to ignore, but I'm unsure as to how this will pan out.
2) go down the mental health route, as done with WF, FW & DWP. This has proved fruitful in getting interest frozen and payments heavily reduced, but can also be stressful to deal with around 'review' time. One good thing, Lowell haven't added any charges or interest to the original debt.
I'm happy to make monthly payments to them myself, out of my own pocket. However, it'd have to be something small. Yet at the same time, I'm afraid to stick my (my mum's) head above the parapet, and have the SB date reset by acknowledging the debt.
My mum would make payments if she could, but believe me when I say, she literally can't. She would also be devastated at the prospect of me paying her debts. She is utterly ashamed of the mess she's gotten herself into, but it doesn't bother me - she's my mum, it was in the past, and she's a very unwell woman.
Reducing the amounts paid to WF, FW & DWP is not an option - I've tried, very hard indeed.
Any thoughts? I know it might seem like a silly idea, but is it possible for me to make an arrangement with Lowell, without mum acknowledging the debt herself? Does anyone have any experience as to how well they deal with 3rd parties?
Or any other suggestions?
Dream outcome would be for Lowell to pee-off and die
But realistically, I'm looking for a way for this debt to be paid, without causing any further problems for my mum.
Any input much appreciated.
Background - my mum has had some serious issues with debt in the past, in terms of borrowing amounts that she knew could not be repaid, incurring utilities arrears, and so on. However, she is mentally ill. Certifiably so. She suffers from a range of MH conditions for which she receives treatment, but there are good times, and bad.
She has been 'clean' (no further debts incurred) since around 2008. However, she cannot repay anything/much off her debts (very low income, very high outgoings), and refuses to engage in the process. Receiving correspondence from creditors and DCAs sends her into a tailspin, and she goes into a 'bad place'.
For the past few years, I've managed her debts for her. Not in terms of actually making payments from my own pocket, but in terms of negotiating with creditors, and making sure promised repayment amounts are actually paid.
The picture is as follows:
(NB: Statute Barred dates relate only to date of default, plus 6 years. Some dates will likely be several months earlier, in reality. No payments or acknowledgements have been made on any of these debts for a long time - in the majority of cases several months prior to the recorded date of default):
Hoist (ex British Gas) – £272 – SB 01-08-2014
Few nasty letters over the years, last one from Robinson Way, about 6 months ago.
Provident (ex-Vanquis card) – £606 – SB 31-12-2014
Not bothering her. No letters in years.
HSBC – £600 – SB 14-09-2015
Not bothering her. Never really have.
Lowell (ex Barclaycard) – £1,385 – SB 05-02-2016 (possibly June 2014, as below)
Troublesome, as below.
Welcome Finance - £3,695 - in default since 2011, but being paid @ £20.00 every 4 weeks. Interest frozen. Reviewed every once in a while, but has remained the same for 2 years now. I have a semi-regular battle with them every time this is up for review (I am authorised to deal with the account).
DWP - £1,945.75 - overpayment of benefit (non-fraudulent!) - being repaid @ £15.00 per month, and has been for over a year now. I'm authorised to deal with the account, and the DWP deal only with me, and even correspond to my home address. DWP tried to 'review' this payment in Dec 2012, requesting more, but luckily, they had originally (March 2012) sent a letter confirming that the final payment was to be made in something like the year 2024. I returned a copy of that to them, and complained at the same time, and they've been quiet since. This is not a credit file issue, and is not reported to the CRAs.
Fashion World - £1,600 - in default since 2011, but being paid @ £10.00 every 4 weeks. Similar to Welcome Finance in that whilst interest is frozen, it's bloody hard work keeping it that way. I also exclusively manage this account, and F-World deal only with me.
---
Ironically, my biggest fights are with those who are actually receiving payments! Welcome Finance and Fashion World appear to be in competition for who can be the worst collector, and the DWP are not much better. As I pay these debts, they have been 100% on time, for 2 years (WF and FW), and 1 year (DWP) respectively. I manage my mum's money, and scalp £45.00 per month off the top - with her knowledge - and pay the direct debits via my own bank, to ensure they are paid. I am of course in no way legally liable for their payment, though.
WF and FW both have 'debt and mental health evidence' forms on file, completed by mum's GP, who agreed to provide evidence as to how her MH conditions affect her money management skills. The DWP didn't ask for one. All three also have up-to-date income/expenditure forms on file, which clearly demonstrate why she can't pay more.
The problem is, my mum only has £45 per month to spare, literally, which is used up on WF, FW & DWP. Sometimes less, and I've been known to top it up by the odd few pounds. She does work, but earns just £800 per month - she can't work more than part time due to health concerns, she's tried it, but fell very ill in the process. She doesn't live an extravagant lifestyle. She has no vices, and very few luxuries (well, none).
I thought things were going OK, until Lowell (AKA Red AKA Hamptons Legal) started rearing their ugly head about 6 months ago. They bought the £1,385 debt in 2010 from Barclaycard, and used to send the occasional letter. Now they send one every few weeks, pretending to have passed it on to someone bigger and scarier, who is just a subsidiary of their own group. The letters have been completely ignored, some returned to sender, but they haven't stopped.
The latest letter is from Hamptons, and is the one where they inform of intention to 'consider' legal action, i.e. a CCJ. I'm a bit stuck as to what to do. The debt isn't SB for another 2 years, 9 months (just based on default date), so there's a lot of time for them to pursue it. However, looking at mum's credit file, it would appear as though she last paid Barclaycard in June 2008. I'm pretty certain that she hasn't acknowledged the debt ever since - she certainly hasn't paid - so the true SB date could be around that time in 2014.
The way I see it, Lowell may be panicking as to the relatively close SB date (assuming June 2014 is correct), or they may just be being nasty. Either way, I'm aware that they're not the nicest DCA to deal with!
I now have a few options:
1) continue to ignore, but I'm unsure as to how this will pan out.
2) go down the mental health route, as done with WF, FW & DWP. This has proved fruitful in getting interest frozen and payments heavily reduced, but can also be stressful to deal with around 'review' time. One good thing, Lowell haven't added any charges or interest to the original debt.
I'm happy to make monthly payments to them myself, out of my own pocket. However, it'd have to be something small. Yet at the same time, I'm afraid to stick my (my mum's) head above the parapet, and have the SB date reset by acknowledging the debt.
My mum would make payments if she could, but believe me when I say, she literally can't. She would also be devastated at the prospect of me paying her debts. She is utterly ashamed of the mess she's gotten herself into, but it doesn't bother me - she's my mum, it was in the past, and she's a very unwell woman.
Reducing the amounts paid to WF, FW & DWP is not an option - I've tried, very hard indeed.
Any thoughts? I know it might seem like a silly idea, but is it possible for me to make an arrangement with Lowell, without mum acknowledging the debt herself? Does anyone have any experience as to how well they deal with 3rd parties?
Or any other suggestions?
Dream outcome would be for Lowell to pee-off and die
But realistically, I'm looking for a way for this debt to be paid, without causing any further problems for my mum.Any input much appreciated.
0
Comments
-
I am wondering whether bankruptcy might be an option for your mum, it would mean everything was taken care of once and for all, and then she (you) could start again.
Been here for a long time and don't often post0 -
I am wondering whether bankruptcy might be an option for your mum, it would mean everything was taken care of once and for all, and then she (you) could start again.
We've talked about this a lot, but it's never come to fruition. The DWP would not be covered by BR (as far as I understand it, though I may be mistaken), but I've always considered it to be a possible solution to the rest.
Her concern with BR is that she won't be able to get a bank account. I've advised her that it is possible, but it's not information she can/will accept, despite it being in black and white and publicly available. As far as her MH conditions go, denial of facts is a common theme - and not something I've been able to overcome with her.
My concern with BR is the possibility that she'd still have to pay something to her creditors, and that it'd exceed the £45 per month in payment now. But I don't know a great deal about this, and would have to research further.0 -
We've talked about this a lot, but it's never come to fruition. The DWP would not be covered by BR (as far as I understand it, though I may be mistaken), but I've always considered it to be a possible solution to the rest.
Overpayment for what exactly? Non fraudulent benefit overpayments are provable debts in bankruptcy, that are cleared on discharge.
Does she have earned or private pension income? Or is it just benefits that she receives?Free/impartial debt advice: National Debtline | StepChange Debt Charity | Find your local CAB
IVA & fee charging DMP companies: Profits from misery, motivated ONLY by greed0 -
Also I make that a total of about £10,000?
Have you looked into a Debt Relief Order? http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=37_debt_relief_ordersFree/impartial debt advice: National Debtline | StepChange Debt Charity | Find your local CAB
IVA & fee charging DMP companies: Profits from misery, motivated ONLY by greed0 -
Overpayment for what exactly? Non fraudulent benefit overpayments are provable debts in bankruptcy, that are cleared on discharge.
Does she have earned or private pension income? Or is it just benefits that she receives?
Hi - overpaid Income Support many years ago, on grounds of her circumstances having changed (receiving a small amount of child maintenance in conjunction with I.S.). However, she had written to the DWP 3 times and made 2 phonecalls, but her benefit still didn't stop or get reduced. Luckily she had proof of all her attempted contacts, phonebills, recorded delivery slips, etc. She even had a letter from DWP saying 'thanks for updating us of your change in circumstances', or words to that effect. So, I'm unsure of the precise terminology, but they agreed that she hadn't committed fraud (which she was accused of, eventually), and that the error was their own.
The original debt was much higher, but she agreed that they could recover from her DLA, when she was on it. But hasn't been on DLA for over a year, hence why alternative arrangements for payment had to be made.
And as for income, it's all earned now. She used to receive salary, DLA, and CTC/WTC. She came off DLA voluntarily (I don't think she should have), having become spooked at a neighbour being done for 'fraud'. CTC/WTC ended naturally when my younger sister came of age.0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 351.3K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.2K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 453.7K Spending & Discounts
- 244.3K Work, Benefits & Business
- 599.4K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 177.1K Life & Family
- 257.7K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.2K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.6K Read-Only Boards