Totally confused! Again!

123helpme123

.... Sorted out! Thanks all!

paulineb_2

Have you had your p45? Generally by the time most people put an appeal in against dismissal they will technically no longer be employed having been sacked.

I was sacked before Xmas and my leaving date was the 18th December and thats all they paid me to. My situation was a bit different as I was already on ESA having been off work with work related stress since the October.

I was basically just going through the motions with the appeal as I knew I would lose it, my p45 was sent after the appeal failed but I was paid until the date of dismissal and no more.

All I can say is you'll have to ask them directly and I would be taking strong exception to everyone being told youve been suspended, that in my view is a massive breach of data protection and no one elses business.

paulineb_2

Also have you got everything you are entitled to re holiday pay? When I left I was owed around £600 in unpaid holiday pay that I was due in lieu of holidays that I was unable to take for various reasons (mainly having hardly any staff), I had to put up a bit of a fight to get it, but I got most of what I was due (my boss didnt have much of a clue about anything to do with holiday pay or extra hours worked)

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Pricivius

If your dismissal has been confirmed and you have received a P45 then it looks as though you are dismissed. Did they send you a letter confirming your dismissal and have you received payment of all monies due?

As for your queries, if you have been dismissed, then an appeal does not undo this decision until the appeal is decided. You remain dismissed until they reach a decision on your appeal.

As for the documentation, you need to have received a copy of the all the evidence they are relying on to reach their decision. If they relied on the minutes of the investigation meeting then you should have been given them. However, your appeal gives them a chance to right this wrong and make good any defects in their procedure. If they send you all documents and make the same decision again, then their error has been rectified and you can no longer argue that point.

As for communications to current employees, this is up to the company. There may be business reasons why they do not want to confirm you dismissal to your colleagues, or they may be aware that the decision to dismiss could be overturned at appeal and it would be easier for you to return to the business in that instance if they don't communicate your dismissal to your colleagues. Benefit of the doubt - there could be a good reason for the mis-communication.

If I were you, I would be calming down a little and acting with a little more humility rather than calling the shots. You admit you have done something wrong so if you genuinely want them to reconsider your dismissal and you want your job back, I would be acting like someone they would want to employ rather than telling colleagues the details and emailing HR demanding suspension pay. Just a thought - people approach things differently, but I know which approach I would favour as an employer who may be reconsidering employing someone.

paulineb_2

I think the queries you have about the way the investigation has been handled would be something you would need to take up at employment tribunal if you plan to go down that route.

If youve had your p45 I dont think legally they need to keep paying you.

I disagree about the issue with them telling people you are suspended, I think its a massive breach of your data protection and Id be letting them know.

I actually dont think its fair enough to say after youve sacked someone, oh we made a boo boo in the way the investigation was handled and Im sure a lot of companies dont follow proper procedures, but again, that would be for an employment tribunal to deal with, but Id certainly be mentioning it at the appeal stage, its a statutory right to know prior to a hearing what youve been accused of and you have the legal right to see all the evidence the company had.

And if you are a union member thats something that the union should have been challenging at the time they were investigating you.

Pricivius

paulineb wrote: »

I think the queries you have about the way the investigation has been handled would be something you would need to take up at employment tribunal if you plan to go down that route.

This depends on whether they correct the error on appeal. If they do, there is nothing for the Tribunal to consider.

paulineb wrote: »

If youve had your p45 I dont think legally they need to keep paying you.

Not necessarily. A P45 alone is not a definitive confirmation of termination of employment. If the company issued the P45 in error, it can be retracted. Hence why I asked OP for confirmation as to whether the P45 was backed up with a dismissal letter and final payments - these altogether indicate termination of employment.

paulineb wrote: »

I disagree about the issue with them telling people you are suspended, I think its a massive breach of your data protection and Id be letting them know.

I'm struggling to see a DPA breach here. There has been no disclosure of OP's personal data that I can identify.

paulineb wrote: »

I actually dont think its fair enough to say after youve sacked someone, oh we made a boo boo in the way the investigation was handled and Im sure a lot of companies dont follow proper procedures, but again, that would be for an employment tribunal to deal with, but Id certainly be mentioning it at the appeal stage, its a statutory right to know prior to a hearing what youve been accused of and you have the legal right to see all the evidence the company had.

That's as may be, but the law sees it differently. A procedurally unfair dismissal can be corrected on appeal. As long as the company can show it made amends on appeal and still reached the same decision, the procedural defect is no longer relevant.

I guess it comes down to what OP is hoping to achieve out of this... There are several ways to win a battle and shouting the loudest and waving your sword around does not always work.

paulineb_2

If a process has been started without using proper procedure I would think that the only way to correct it would be to go through the entire process again, because if an error was made at investigatory stage, it could be argued that they may have affected how the disciplinary stage was conducted and the final outcome. However I dont know whether the OP is concerned about the way the investigation was handled as a whole or just whether they didnt get a copy of the minute that was taken at the time. And again, if the OP had a union rep, they should have been querying whether all of this was handled procedurally or not as the case may have been. Speaking as someone who managed staff, I always made sure that I had knowledge of the company policies and ACAS codes of guidance before I ever disciplined someone (which was rare), but people need to be treated fairly throughout the process.

Ive never had knowledge of a company making an error and then correcting it so obviously my knowledge is lacking on that, anytime Ive dealt with employers who havent had a clue about employment law theyve just steamed ahead whether they were right or wrong.

Perhaps I should have said confidentiality instead of data protection. In any times in my working life when a co worker was suspended, the rest of the staff team werent told and I think thats correct, because if you come back to work after being suspended, for whatever reason you want to be able to pick up where you left off without everyone knowing your business.

Yes, you are right re the dismissal letter and final payments, but on the other thread that the OP started she did speak at length about having been told she was dismissed, so I think its v unlikely that her p45 was issued by this company in error.

[Deleted User]

Just a note regards your JSA claim this is of course only if your still on it, I could be wrong but I would actually be very careful on wanting "due pay"/wages as this could have an effect on receiving JSA/any help from gov