Parking ticket x 2 - help needed!

bluebell3

As a driver for over 10 years i have only ever received 1 parking ticket. Until this week. Some how i have managed to get 2 in 2 days! Both of these are from private parking companies in Exeter and have different costs... any advice you can offer would be a great help as i have no experience in dealing with this!

Ticket 1) 23/4/13 issued by Smart Parking aka Town and City Parking. I overstayed the free 90mins by 10 mins in a Co-Op carpark. Fine of £60 reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days. I used the carpark as it is close to my Drs Surgery who offer a drop in service. Needless to say i spent 1 hr 40 at the Drs waiting and the having blood tests which meant i was late. The ticket is filled in by hand and has the wrong start time on it tho, it states i was parked there from 09.20 - 12.00, when i was only there from 10.20 - 12.00!

Ticket 2) 24/4/13 Issued by Premier Parking Solutions. I was 6 mins late back to my car and they want £100 or £60 if paid within 14 days. This ticket looks far more official and has the BPA logo on it too. Thats £10 per min if i pay within 14 days!

Can anyone offer any advice on these? It's not a situation i've been in before and i know a lot of people say don't pay them (and i really cant afford to) but i dont want it to escalate and get charged more! Just to make matters worse when i got home i couldnt even find a parking spot within a few roads of my house, next time i might as well get the bus.

Coupon-mad

You have still only ever received one parking ticket.

These are not fines so stop referring to them as if they are; these are invoices, mere 'fake PCNs' which you won't be paying. Neither are official at all.

Both companies are AOS members (BPA approved operators). But that means nowt really, just that they are allowed to get your name & address data from the DVLA and - if you are in England/Wales - then you are allowed to appeal to POPLA to get these cancelled. See the two sticky threads near the top of this forum, one showing POPLA winning appeal points (and a couple of lost cases from older ones, before we knew what to use in the challenge) and one with a link to a POPLA information website you'd do well to read.

You will see that you have to appeal to the PPC first, but do read more to see the issues involved; also see below as I strongly advise you to wait for them to write the first letter.

In both cases as these were windscreen PCNs (am I right, they haven't written to you as the registered keeper yet?) just wait for the Notice to Keeper to arrive first.

As long as this is your car (not a hire/lease/company vehicle) then don't jump the gun, no need to respond to the windscreen fake PCN. You only have to wait and hopefully see them muck up the process in issuing a Notice to Keeper (NTK):

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/

They are bound to miss deadlines, get the process wrong, have errors on their fake parking ticket, NTK, other paperwork and/or signs. I will BET it's not all compliant! In both cases, when drafting your challenges, look for breaches of the BPA code of practice (Google it and read it!).

In both cases I would look to just send the PPCs a legal challenge appeal when you get their NTK, a particular style of 'appeal' which doesn't tell them anything at all, like this one:

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/appeal-letter/

Change it to suit your individual cases though (never just copy a complicated letter verbatim and don't use any point you really don't understand).

And in the first case (Smart) when it copmes to your appeal to them, point out the error on the fake PCN as well - without saying 'I was only parked for xx time' of course, one main point of this 'legal challenge' response is NOT to give any detail but always word it in the third person 'the handwritten ticket is wrong because the car wasn't parked there at 9.20am and you have no evidence that it was'. Plus all the stuff in the linky!

In the second case, knowing PPS from other threads for years, I suspect their signage will not stand up to much scrutiny...;)

bluebell3

Thankyou so much for your help!
It's great to have so a thorough response! Yes you were correct in your assumptions, it is my car and they were placed on the windscreen, not arriving through the post.

I feel a bit happier about the first one, as the parking ticket isn't even correct

So my next move is, do nothing? I have to wait for the Notice to Keeper to arrive and then start the challenge from there? I first appeal to the Parking Company directly on receipt of letter and then if they reject it i appeal to POPLA? Ok...how long do these notices take to come through roughly and if i lose the appeal with both companies do i have to pay the full amount of £160 for them both?

Sorry for all the questions, bit of a novice at all this! May venture back to these places tomorrow and take a photo of their signs...

Coupon-mad

That's right, do nothing, wait for the Notice to Keeper. You'll be responding to that, including any breaches of the BPA code of practice, e.g. lack of clear signs, flawed ticket/NTK, missed deadlines, no contract, no trespass, no breach, punitive penalty, unfair terms... loads of stuff as covered in the second Parking Cowboys link.

The first Parking Cowboys link tells you how soon a PPC should send a NTK (obviously don't prompt the scammers if they miss the deadline!).

If you lose the POPLA appeal the decision IS NOT BINDING on you - you do not suddenly have to pay - you are basically back to square one, that's all, and may well get debt collector threatograms. If you win, it IS BINDING on the scammers! Good eh?! And all referrals to POPLA cost the scumbags £27 plus vat, whatever the decision!

Pics of signs are good, taken so that the wording on the signs is readable. Also look to see if there are signs at the entrance or not? And all around? Are they clear, are they too high, too small font, don't have all the details, are they lit?

bluebell3

Ok, so.....i've received the NTK for the slight overstay, stating that i now owe 130 and i've drafted a response stating i'm not going to pay. The carpark that issued me the ticket that was incorrect has yet to contact me (fingers crossed they won't!)
I went back to the carpark and took pictures of the signs of both carparks. The one i have received a NTK from does have a statement of contract on the signs next to the payment machine. I've appealed on grounds of disproportionate fee as it is a 70p per hour carpark!
Just going to send it off today and see what response i get. Holding my ground at the mo! And it makes the night shift go a bit quicker at work researching all of this!
Wish me luck......

Stroma

Make sure you ask for the popla verification code to appeal independently on rejection. Once you have it come back here for help with that.

JournalGirl

A Notice to Keeper can be served by ordinary post and the Protection of Freedoms Act requires that the Notice, to be valid, must be delivered either

(Where a notice to driver (parking ticket) has been served) Not earlier than 28 days after, nor more than 56 days after, the service of that notice to driver;

Are they not out of time on this - from the dates you give (if I am reading this correctly) you should have received this by 19th June?

bazster

JG, you are correct, it is ludicrously out-of-time.

bluebell3

oh interesting I never thought to check the timescale! Is it up to 56 days after the 28 days I had to pay or 56 days after they slapped their offensive yellow plastic "ticket" on my car?
Thanks for all your help by the way! I think I probably would have just paid it if I hadn't had help from you all!

JournalGirl

from the date when the parking ticket was stuck on your car :-)

JournalGirl

By the way - did anyone see 'Your money - their tricks' this week. Patronising twaddle, BUT they did a section on PPCs and it did cover a good few of the points quite well. Lets hope it starts to get the word out there.

Shocking fact was that (if true) around 70% of people just pay these tickets.