KIT days and SMP

mozzie1

Hi I need advice about payment of SMP and KIT (Keeping in Touch days). In agreement with my employer I am planning to do the 10 KIT days that I am entitled to without affecting my SMP in the 35th and 36th weeks of my SMP. In addition to this and because of training schedules related to a project I will be in charge of when I return to work permanently both myself and my employer had hoped I could then work an additional 2 days in the following week (the 37th week). We both realise that I would lose my SMP for that week but my employer is willing to pay accordingly so that I am not losing any money but in fact would receive more. My question is would I then be able to resume SMP and be paid this in the 38th and 39th week as I am not returning to work permanently until after this date.
I have seen conflicting advice about this on numerous websites including the HMRC guidance about whether doing additional work over the 10 KIT days means SMP then stops altogether.
My employer has spoken to a HMRC advisor to get to the bottom of this although the advisor said the SMP should stop she also then stated that it was a matter for the employer and myself to agree upon, leaving us somewhat confused.
My employer is being very good about it all and does not want me to lose out on any money so they have said that if it meant SMP would be lost entirely that I would not have to attend the two training days and that someone else working on the project would attend and train me up in-house when I return. The issue is what are my rights exactly when HMRC guidance and advisors themselves are not wholly clear. I hope you might be able to help with the proper entitlements as if I can go on the training without losing more than one week SMP I would like to. Many thanks

getmore4less

Why not do 4 day kit weeks and then use 2 kit days for the training.


http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/specialist-guides/technical-guidance/ni17a-a-guide-to-maternity/statutory-maternity-pay-smp/working-in-your-maternity-pay/

implies you oly lose the SMP in the week you work(after using up the kit days).


have the acrrued holidays been sorted?

mariefab

I think that what the HMRC advisor was getting at is that SMP would stop because exceeding the 10 kit days means that your maternity leave ends.
So, if in those circumstances you and your employer still wish to do this; it would a matter between you to agree how to proceed from there.

e.g.
You would immediately return to work.
You could take accrued holiday entitlement.
Your employer would pay the equivalent of the next couple of weeks SMP and permit you to take unpaid authorised absence/parental leave/whatever for the remaining time that you would have had off if your maternity leave hadn't ended.
Some other mutually agreed arrangement.

LittleMax

In the past I have had two employees work additional days during their period of leave. The first goes back before KIT days were even introduced, she came in for a training day close to the end of her maternity leave, she took a day off in lieu once she had returned to work. The second we paid a day's overtime once they had returned to work.

mozzie1

Hi thanks for all your replies. Just shows how open to interpretation this appears to be. I am wondering though if just because tecnically your maternity leave ends whether you would still be entitled to SMP. I have read this during the vast amount of online research I have done including on law firm websites and on payroll advice clinics. Hence my confusion. I just wish the HMRC guidance would spell it out. It does not actually say your SMP would stop altogether, but that you lose a week's pay for the week in which you worked over your KIT days. If I find out a definitive answer I will update you all... but thanks for your advice and tips on maybe swapping days around, although the days I would work are to fit in with the work project and also childcare arrangements. I am lucky that my employer is flexible and I know that they want to make this work for me as much as them and that they do not want to see me out of pocket. They even promoted me 8 weeks before I went on maternity leave so I know they are fair employers and want a happy, motivated staff as they know they get the best out of people this way. They are also getting advice on this but they are a small employer and we are a small team. Many thanks all

mariefab

I agree that the HMRC guidance could be clearer
Although it does state that maternity leave ends it doesn't follow that up with the obvious implication that you can't receive SMP if you are not on maternity leave.
I suppose it's because the guidance is more concerned with the operation of SMP than with maternity rights.

LittleMax has provided 2 excellent examples of how a good employer has dealt with the problem.

PuddleP

The guidance in E15 states that SMP is not payable in any week where a KIT day is taken that is over the 10 days. So you would lose you SMP for week 37 and as long as you don't work in week 38/39 you will receive the normal SMP.

mozzie1

Thanks again to all your replies. I'll let you know if I get a definitive answer from HMRC. On the point about doing work but being paid at a later date I'm a little concerned about going down this route as I thought that it was the day worked that counted and not the point at which you are paid and I would not want to lose my last two weeks SMP because we hadn't followed this. Otherwise anyone could any amount of work and not get paid till later and so you'd end up with wages on top of SMP which is what the KIT days were introduced to try to avoid as well as allowing workers to settle back into work. Thanks for the replies though.

LittleMax

mozzie1 wrote: »

Thanks again to all your replies. I'll let you know if I get a definitive answer from HMRC. On the point about doing work but being paid at a later date I'm a little concerned about going down this route as I thought that it was the day worked that counted and not the point at which you are paid and I would not want to lose my last two weeks SMP because we hadn't followed this. Otherwise anyone could any amount of work and not get paid till later and so you'd end up with wages on top of SMP which is what the KIT days were introduced to try to avoid as well as allowing workers to settle back into work. Thanks for the replies though.

Yes, if you go down the route of paying it as overtime, you wouldn't indicate on the overtime sheet (or however your record overtime) that it was overtime worked in a week before you came back. It would need to be put through as overtime for the current week when it is submitted. Think of it in terms of, agree to take a day back in lieu during your first proper week back, but then work your day off and receive overtime for that.

mozzie1

FINALLY have an answer.... thought I'd let you know.

My employer spoke to HMRC advisor and was told I would lose all my remaining SMP but she wasn't convinced so emailed the HMRC online advice line and has received the following reply.

Looks like I can work the extra days over my 10 KIT days and lose SMP for one week but then resume my remaining SMP, so hooray!!! I'm lucky my employer was so willing to pursue this ... it would have been so easy to take the advice of the HMRC contact at face value but this is not actually correct.

Here is the reply:

Dear Sir/Madam



Thank you for your enquiry.

If the employee works for you during the SMP Pay Period, even for half a day, she would not normally be paid SMP for the week in which she works.

However you and your employee may agree that she will work for up to 10 Keeping in Touch (KIT) days, whether consecutive or not, during her Maternity Pay Period. Working for you on a KIT day does not affect her SMP.

If your employee uses up the 10 KIT days you cannot pay SMP to her for any other week in which she does some work for you during her Maternity Pay Period. She will lose one week's SMP at the standard rate for any week or part week that she works. The SMP pay period is not extended to take account of any such weeks. The employee's SMP would continue on for the remaining weeks left.

Even if she works in the first six weeks of the pay period when she may have been entitled to 90% of her average weekly earnings, her SMP is reduced at the standard weekly rate (£136.78 each week for the 13/14 tax year) rather than the higher 90% of earnings until she has received the six weeks at the percentage rate.


Yours faithfully,



Employer Helpline
www.hmrc.gov.uk