Liability of debt now discharged?

ozvaldo_2

Hi,

My wife and I owned a pub until July 2011 when we went bankrupt. In June 2009 we contracted RTA to sell our pub and signed a contract with lots of small print!!

The pub has recently been sold and we automatically discharged after 12 months and are now 'former' bankrupts. we have now been informed by RTA that we owe them money - initially they wanted commission of £15,250 + vat, after a couple of telephone calls they have now referred to 'clause 11' and have demanded £500 + vat which I laughed at over the phone so they quickly said they'd settle for £300 + vat.

If this is a 'debt' then even though it wasn't declared on the bankruptcy (as I didn't realise we would have owed them money), then surely we are not liable. They are saying that we are now out of bankruptcy as we are 'former' bankrupts and owe them.

Can anyone please help and shed some light. They charged us initially £1750 + vat to be our agents and they over-valued the premises and sent nobody around.

Thanks

'Ozvaldo'

fermi

Yes, they are talking twaddle.

Dear try-it-on-merchants,

You have contacted me regarding the alleged debt in relation to xyz.

As you are aware I was declared bankrupt on xx/yy/20zz and discharged from bankruptcy on xx/yy/20zz.

The debt/liability you claim pre-dates the making of the bankruptcy order, and as such is a provable bankruptcy debt under those proceedings.

I remind you that s382 of the Insolvency Act 1986 defines a bankruptcy debt as:

“Bankruptcy debt”, in relation to a bankrupt, means (subject to the next subsection) any of the following—

(a) any debt or liability to which he is subject at the commencement of the bankruptcy,

(b) any debt or liability to which he may become subject after the commencement of the bankruptcy (including after his discharge from bankruptcy) by reason of any obligation incurred before the commencement of the bankruptcy,

Furthermore, s281 specifies that on discharge from bankruptcy the bankrupt is released from all bankruptcy debts.

Consequently any liability that may have existed for the sums you claim were discharged by my discharge from bankruptcy on xx/yy/20zz.

As such, if you wish to continue any claim for such liability, then you are required to direct any claims to the Official Receiver/Trustee dealing with the bankruptcy estate. Their address is:

<your OR's address>

Please note that any further contact from yourselves will be regarded as harassment and will be reported to the Official Receiver.

Furthermore, should you vexatiously attempt any legal action, then this will be defended in full, and your knowledge of this communication provided as evidence to the court.

I hope I have made myself clear in this matter.

ozvaldo_2

Hi Fermi,

Thank you for a very in-depth answer, RTA have been on the phone again chasing me for money and have explained that it is not a 'debt' that I owe but a charge to cancel the contract that is still in existence that has RTA as the selling agents for the pub.

I have agreed over the phone verbally to pay them at the end of the month £150 + vat to get them off my back. If you think they are trying it on still I will type up your letter and send it back to them. What they are saying is that a cancellation fee was due (clause 11 in their contract) and that the contract is still 'live'.

Is it a debt or a liability??

Thanks

Oz

PippaGirl_2

As Fermi has said, if the cancellation fee was accrued due to something you signed before you went BR then even a cancellation fee is included in the BR and you do not have to pay it. Send the letter refusing to pay it.

arcon5

The contract can't simply roll over past BR if you don't agree to this.

They clearly no where they stand, hence the massive drop in what they are claiming.

If you pay them anything they may use this against you to try claim you agreed to take on te contract after bankruptcy.

Stand firm and tell them to shove it

ozvaldo_2

Thank you all for your advice, I am about to copy the above letter and send it off; I will copy the reply if any to this thread when received for your information.

Thanks again, it was a tough decision going bankrupt and one we didn't take lightly. As the pub was freehold, we lost our home and about £50k which we invested ourselves, and walked away with nothing!

Oz.