Suspended from work help or advice please

Rylynn

My son has been suspended from work, he was called in on Sunday after a customer complained she heard him swear, someone he knew had gone into the supermarket and spotted him and then stood chatting to him, and this lad was swearing, this other lad was in there to shop and had no idea my son worked there.

My son obviously swore although he told his line manager he did not remember doing so, as he honestly does not remember swearing but he said if the customer said he had then he must have. There was a person taking notes at this meeting. He apologised profusely but was told he would have to attend a disciplinary this coming Saturday (he only works part time as he is a student).

My son was then told he could leave if he wished or return to finish his shift, he chose to finish the shift. Yesterday work called and I took the call as he was not here, he then came in and called them back. It was HR, he was told that the Branch Manager cannot be there on Saturday and that he is being suspended on full pay and that a letter will be sent to him to arrange a date for the meeting.

I cannot find his work handbook, but even without it I realise this is very serious and the HR person told him on the phone it was serious. His only other problems since having this job were that he was given a written warning for being off sick, this supermarket are very strict on staff being off sick, that warning though was now over 6 months ago. He has been there 22 months.

It just seems very strange to me that he has been suspended and yet was allowed back on the shop floor to finish his shift, I would have expected them to have asked him to leave immediately.

I wonder if anyone can tell me if they think he will be sacked, I have a horrible feeling he will be, and having already gone through a cancer scare in January (and he still went into work every weekend even when not particularly well as he did not want to lose his job) this really is not what we needed.

He knows he was in the wrong, he has never sworn in work before, but when asked did he swear outside of work he did not lie and said yes when he is with his mates.

I have told him he is going to have to accept that what he did was totally out of order, he did not swear at anyone, he just swore in conversation, not that it makes it any better. He was asked why he did not walk away from this person, and he explained he had but the guy had followed him, so he ended up going out the back to get away from him.

I will not mention which supermarket but suffice to say it is not a rubbish one, far from it, which is why I think he will be sacked.

Anyway maybe someone can give me some advice on why he was allowed to carry on working if this is considered gross misconduct which I assume it will be?
Thanks

bluenoseam

I'd suggest it was perhaps an oversight by the investigating person to allow him to continue his shift, generally speaking when you've been informed of a suspension you're out there & then!

Problem is though that he's accepted the likelihood is that he did swear & not only that but no doubt they'd also look very unkindly upon the fact he was having a conversation during working hours. Much as he tried to ditch the friend, in hindsight his best bet would have been to say "listen man, we'll catch up sometime, but I'm working right now and don't want to catch grief for skiving". (if anything that's a lesson he'll learn for the future!)

There might be a chance they'll let him away with a final written warning if he shows he's learned from the mistake & that it'll never happen again - which I don't doubt he probably is! At this point in time it's probably a dim question to ask if he's in a union? If he isn't and he survives this, first thing he does is sign up sharpish, because he's severely blotted his copy book here.

Might also be an idea to get him to clue up on compromise agreements, better he's able to say he resigned than that he was fired, even if the resignation was a last resort. Essentially they may give him an agreed reference without mention of the incident if he's lucky, but they're not under any obligation - but by the same measure they're not under any obligation to give him one anyway!

Crazy_Jamie

Rylynn wrote:

Anyway maybe someone can give me some advice on why he was allowed to carry on working if this is considered gross misconduct which I assume it will be?

It is not a requirement that he is suspended immediately pending a disciplinary hearing. It is justified under the ACAS Code of Practice because it is potentially gross misconduct, but it is not a requirement. I presume that the offer for him to finish his shift was simply a practical one on the basis that the employer wouldn't have been able to bring in a replacement at such short notice. To be honest I feel that giving him a choice as to whether or not to finish his shift was about as fair a proposal as the employer could have made at that point.

It sounds more than possible that this could be considered gross misconduct in the circumstances, though that is not a definite. Either way, dismissal would certainly be within the reasonable range of responses in a case such as this. Your son's best option would be to fully accept his conduct, unreservedly apologise, but make the point that it was not swearing at anyone and that it was essentially a momentary and unintentional lapse when speaking to someone he knew. He needs to make the point that he realises how serious this is, but that he is keen to remain in the job and make amends if at all possible, and that if he is kept on he will learn from this incident and ensure that there is no repeat in future. At this point, he can do little more than that.

I wish him the best of luck; it just sounds to me like a momentary lapse, albeit potentially a costly one. Either way it is something that he can learn from going forwards, whether in this job or further down the line.

Crazy_Jamie

bluenoseam wrote:

I'd suggest it was perhaps an oversight by the investigating person to allow him to continue his shift, generally speaking when you've been informed of a suspension you're out there & then!

From the OP's post it does not appear that he was informed of a suspension at the point where the manager asked if he wished to finish his shift; the suspension only appears to have come after confirmation that the manager would not be able to attend the meeting arranged for the Saturday. Either way it is of little importance and is not an issue to get hung up on.

Rylynn

Thank you all for your replies. I was just shocked that he was allowed to finish his shift, there was only half an hour left by that point, and then 3 days later got a call to say he was being suspended. I am not sure if the line manager knew how serious this was as she told my son she had to ask if it was a disciplinary matter before she held the meeting following the complaint by the customer.

HR when they phoned said he would get a letter, which I assume will tell him he can take someone with him. And NO he is not in a union, he only works 9 hours at the weekends. The suspension appears to have been put in place due to the branch manager not being there on Saturday which is when his next shift would have been and when he was told last Sunday the disciplinary would be held. He was told it would be on full pay, as I say that is by the by, but they are being fair, but then I would not expect anything less from this company.

It was a lapse on his part, as he would not normally swear in work, he did tell this manager that he swears outside of work as she asked the question, which for me will not have helped matters but he said he was not going to sit and lie on top of everything else.

I agree he should have told this other lad that he could not stand and talk, so that does not look good either. It is sad as he really likes the job and the place and people. In fact he was hoping he would be able to work full time later this year for them if a position was to become available.

He knows just how stupid he has been, and I know he is not looking forward to this disciplinary meeting with the Branch manager, the fact it is the branch manager makes me feel he will be sacked.

Thank you for letting me know that the suspension coming a few days later means very little, but obviously indicates just how serious this matter is.

As has been said he will learn by this, very costly way to learn if he loses the job as there are not many jobs out there and he is well aware of that, aside from which it is not going to look good for reference purposes for any future job either.

This really has not been a very good year so far, l can only hope it improves. At least the cancer scare proved to be false and he has no cancer and maybe I should think about that but the process of finding out and waiting for a whole month to know the outcome was very draining on us as a family.

I will sit him down as soon as we know when the meeting is to be held and ensure he knows what he is going to say, he has no defense but he needs to make sure as has been said that he did not swear at anyone, but realises it is not acceptable and that is causes offence to others, and that it will never happen again, and that it puts the supermarket in a bad light and he is very sorry it happened.
Thank you again for your kind replies.

Savvy_Sue

It's a difficult one: IF he was in the union, I wonder if they'd take the line that the customer may have overheard swearing, but that there was no definitive evidence that it was your son swearing, rather than the lad who was distracting him? I can imagine that it must be very difficult if someone comes into the store and greets your son with something like "Hey man, I didn't know you worked here, you really work here? no sh*t man, that's cool" or whatever not to respond in kind.

I'd suggest he should prepare a statement, and practice saying what he wants to say. Is it worth saying that he has no recollection of swearing, but that he realises it is completely unacceptable to do so at work? That he is obviously capable of working without swearing, as he has almost two years worth of (fairly) impeccable service behind him. That he does not swear at people but may, in the company of his peers and in a social setting, match his language to theirs etc etc etc.

Affynity

I would have thought that they allowed him to finish his shift is enough evidence that he is not a working risk.
However, supermarkets are notoriously bad employers and if they decide, based on merely a past sick record that they can afford to lose one, they'll look beyond reason and sack him.
Hindsight is 20-20, so I know there's no point telling your son to, in future, deny everything.

Way back when I was a lot younger, I studied and worked in a supermarket, I suspect it might be the same one, (one that doesn't open 24 hours maybe?) and I had blue highlights in my hair (I was young, remember) and I was getting complaints from management (never the customers) that it was unacceptable, despite no mention of it in the handbook, and as a result they orchestrated the conditions for dismissal.
It was a shambles of an affair.
Manager: "Why are you working here?"
Me: "I was told to by (a)."
(a) "I didn't tell them to."
So I was dismissed for arbitrary action, which was serious because I was making sales. The fact that there was no benefit for me doing arbitrary work didn't even factor in to the investigation.

You, and a few other people, may not like this advice but supermarkets commonly flout certain regulations regarding employment.
My former employer did not properly follow the correct disciplinary procedures and me, being young, refused to comply until they did.
My advice is, if they fail to follow the correct procedures with your son, let them sack him and appeal to a tribunal.

For example: Someone will be investigating to the best degree possible in a hearsay example of misconduct, your son's behaviour.
The employer has to allow your son a person who can attend their disciplinary. They must provide in full with enough time for review, the full body of evidence being used and finally, the investigator must not conduct the disciplinary.
They should also make this information clear to him.
I strongly suspect they won't follow through with these conditions and summary dismissal without benefit of procedure is commonly overturned in tribunals.
Good luck, and tell your son not to be disheartened. He made a silly mistake but losing one low-skilled job isn't going to hold him back, especially when he's set to gain qualifications soon too.

Rylynn

Thank you.

My son has already said he had no recollection of any swearing, this was at the initial meeting following the incident, which prompted the question did he swear outside work, to which he said yes when with his mates, he said he was not going to sit and lie, and I guess it is better to be honest at the end of the day. He was asked why he did not ask this guy to leave, he told her he had walked away and the guy simply followed him, until he went off the shop floor to get away from him. This guy was a customer he was not there to see my son, he was there to buy something so I am not sure how they can expect my son to ask this guy to leave, unless she meant to leave him alone, ie go away I am working.

However the letter received today, if you can call it that as it is not even on headed paper! says, Suspension on full pay pending investigations, and then that it was unacceptable behaviour as he used improper language, made derogatory remarks about his employment, resulting in a customer complaint which in turn causes damage to the brand.

I have just tackled my son on this "derogatory comments" and he said, he told this guy he was bored, hell surely we all get bored with our jobs! I thought maybe he had said they were a crap company, or rubbish to work for, but if all he said was he was bored I am a bit shocked. I am now wondering if what Affynity has said is true, they are looking to get rid of him due to his sickness record last year, to my knowledge he has had no time off in the last 6 months, even when undergoing horrid cancer tests he still went in each weekend.

He works hard, he is always there before his shift and always impeccably turned out in his uniform, in fact he has always been very proud that he got the job himself, and that he feels they are such a good company he was considering looking to see if he could go full time with them.

Affynity you also say he must be given the chance to see what has been said against him? surely being bored and saying so is not gross misconduct I realise his swearing (if he did in fact swear which he says he is positive he did not) is gross misconduct. Will he be given this information in a letter or at the meeting, if at the meeting he hardly has the time to digest it, let alone prepare a reply. I know he can have someone with him, but I do not think he feels there is anyone in work he can really ask.

The suspension is not considered disciplinary action (I knew that and it does state it) and that once they have carried out the investigation they MAY invite him to attend a formal disciplinary meeting. I think he will be asked to attend such a meeting I cannot see this company doing anything that does not go by the book, and I believe it to be ACAS rules they look to be following although I could be wrong.

I am just wondering what investigations they are carrying out, to my knowledge they had already done that on Sunday. For me he is only 18, suffers with asthma and stress makes that worse, so the quicker this is dealt with the better.

Someone told me once, in fact they printed it off and stuck it on my desk in work, change the things you can change, and accept the things you cannot, well this is one of those things I cannot change and neither can he, what is done is done.

Also to the person who put about gaining qualifications, due to what has gone on, and all the cancer scare he is now not able to even think he will pass his finals. He has however got 8 GCSEs and two AS levels, he is not stupid and has a friendly disposition, most of the time, all teenagers have some bad days, hell so do we all. I guess at the end of the day we are going to have to chalk this up to experience and he will have to move on if they sack him.

I will sort out a statement with him, and get him to go over it, this is going to be nerve racking for him, he is not good in this type of situation, he clams up, he cannot help that, I am the same way.

Thank you :T to those of you who have taken the time to reply to me, I know there are far worse things in life to contend with, but I have just been made redundant after 12 years so this really has not been a great year so far.

ValHaller

In your son's position, one of the things I would like to see is the record of the complaint from the customer. Because I have a funny feeling that no customer complained - this is a complaint cooked up by a supervisor or similar.

He should not ask for this until the outset of the hearing itself. If he asks too soon a statement may well materialise in time for the hearing.

Rylynn

ValHaller wrote: »

In your son's position, one of the things I would like to see is the record of the complaint from the customer. Because I have a funny feeling that no customer complained - this is a complaint cooked up by a supervisor or similar.

He should not ask for this until the outset of the hearing itself. If he asks too soon a statement may well materialise in time for the hearing.

Thank you for that, I will tell my son what you have suggested. I think I need to ask him some more questions but I do not want to stress him out totally, as I have already said we had the cancer scare that was far worse and he is also badly asthmatic and stress really kicks it off.

He has admitted the lad who stopped and chatted to him was swearing (badly as well). I do hope this is not some cooked up thing, for me that would be terrible. I did say to him that I have heard staff swearing in his store, and I have never dreamed of reporting them, they were not swearing at me, and no it is not acceptable, but my son maintains even now he does not think he swore and he said this at the meeting on Sunday with his line manager, a note taker was there, unfortunately he was not offered a copy of the notes taken. Which would have been useful for me to read, as I say he is only 18 and really is not worldly wise.

I know people find it offensive and it is part of the rules that you do not swear or use inappropriate language, but they have said a customer made a complaint, and I suspect they will have a written statement from this person, otherwise how can they progress. I am also now concerned that if you are right they are using this time to get more evidence against him, but from whom I have no idea.

Okay he is supposed to have said to this lad he was bored and hated his F* job, he has just told me that is far from the truth he would never have said it, he may have said he was bored, but not the rest, and I do believe him. As I said he was hoping that maybe he would get a full time job there in a couple of months time. He turns up most shifts 15 minutes early and starts work immediately, if you hate your job you tend to turn up late. In fact a manager commented to him that he was not due to start as it was 20 mins before his shift, but that is the way he is. He would rather be early than be late.

During this cancer scare the job was the only thing my son had to hang on to that was normal, when everything else going on seemed far from normal. He also tells people what a great place it is to work, so why on earth would he say what has has been accused of, it makes no sense to me

bluenoseam

If they wanted rid of him over his sickness record they could have done so very easily.

From what he's said it's a case of he likely swore, he likely said he was bored, the problem there is that it presents a completely unprofessional image for the company involved. Now you might not think this is a proportionate thing, but he has caused harm to the company - that is a very serious offense. Have they told you what he's alleged to have said? If so then ultimately it's his word versus the customer's word and he's already given them enough rope to hang him by admitting that he may have swore.

You keep mentioning his sickness record - was it purely down to the cancer scare? Was he off work ill on further occasions either before or after that? (Incidentally, I will say that it was a SCARE, there are many thousands of people at work today who are nowhere near as fortunate)

Ultimately we've given you all the advice we can give you on this, there's a possibility he screwed up, there's a possibility it may have been his friend who swore, but ultimately the opportunity was there for it to have happened. Even without this he was potentially caught making disparaging comments about his employment - which is less than ideal. As has been previously suggested, the sickness might not look good, but this incident alone has provided more than enough to start proceedings on.