They can't afford to pay me

Nicky9

Hi all,
I work for a small family run company doing all their admin. Back in December they made a few people redundant but kept me on, there are now only 3 employees & the other 2 are directors. They received a family loan at the end of March which cleared the 5 months wages they owed me. Every month they can only afford to pay 2 weeks wages, & now the loan money has been spent I fear another backlog coming.
I have applied for numerous other jobs without success, & the company will not make me redundant as I have worked there just shy of 30 years & that will cost them too much.
Can I force them to make me redundant if my wages start falling behind again, & if so how long should I wait before I start proceedings. I don't really want to go down this route but this time I will have no option as my credit cards are all maxed out & I can't go asking people for loans again.
Many thanks in advance.

McKneff

I can only answer one of your questions, you cannot force them to make you redundant.

Im sure more people will be along to help.

AP007

If your wages fall behind why are letting this happen? With 30 years of service??!!

What do you think will happen if they let you go? You still wont get paid.

how much money are you owed and when are they going to pay this to you?

It is surely an illegal deduction to the wages

an9i77

I'd make an unlawful deduction of wages claim. And find another job. Sharpish.

maninthestreet

Time to find a new job - the business clearly isn't solvent.

joolsybools

It sounds a bit of a nightmare but try not to loose faith and keep looking for other jobs. How many jobs are you applying for per week/month?

Nicky9

joolsybools, I've written to over 100 companies within the last 4 months.

My wages are currently up to date, but there are no more funds available until June, & that will only clear about half of what I'll be owed.
I didn't walk out before as I knew the loan was coming & wanted to hang around for what I was owed. I know I need to find another job right now as the credit card bills keep rolling in & I'm not going to go borrowing from family again.
I just wanted to know whether I could force them to make me redundant seeing as they can't afford to employ me, unfortunately it looks like I can't.
Thank you all for your comments.

AP007

Nicky9 wrote: »

joolsybools, I've written to over 100 companies within the last 4 months.

My wages are currently up to date, but there are no more funds available until June, & that will only clear about half of what I'll be owed.
I didn't walk out before as I knew the loan was coming & wanted to hang around for what I was owed. I know I need to find another job right now as the credit card bills keep rolling in & I'm not going to go borrowing from family again.
I just wanted to know whether I could force them to make me redundant seeing as they can't afford to employ me, unfortunately it looks like I can't.
Thank you all for your comments.

What do you mean no more funds?

Have you told them you want to be paid ON TIME?

You can not force them to make you redundant but you can take them to court for not paying you!

libra10

My son was in a very similar situation to this last year.

He had worked for the company for many years, but gradually wages failed to be paid on time, gradually becoming later and later, until they stopped.

My son repeatedly asked to be made redundant with no success. In this situation you have no money and are unable to sign on at the Job Centre as you are classed as being employed.

He contacted ACAS.

Their website is here

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1461

Their Helpline number is 08457 47 47 47

He was advised to send a 'letter of grievance' detailing the issue, giving a timescale for the employer to reply.

I think he had to send further letters also.

To cut a long story short, he was eventually officially made redundant, and signed on at the Job Centre.

Within a week he found work through an agency, he likes the work and people, although the job is not as well paid as his previous job.

Unfortunately he has still not been paid his redundancy pay by his previous employer, and is currently going through the Tribunal process.

Hope this helps, good luck for the future.

zzzLazyDaisy

You cannot force them to make you redundant. In fact from what you say, your job is not redundant since they still need you to do the work - the problem is that they are not paying you on time, which is a different issue.

Making a claim for unlawful deductions from wages is of limited value unless it goes on for a while. Why? Because you can only make a claim for specific unpaid wages. So say your April wages are unpaid; you make a claim and the following month they pay your wages for April, but then don't pay your May wages, this then becomes a fresh claim, and so on. You could make an application to amend to have the new shortfall incorporated into the claim, but you can see the problem.

What you need to do is to lodge a grievance. Your employer should have a grievance procedure, but if not, download the sample grievance procedure from the ACAS website and follow that. You need to make iyt very clear to your employer, in writing, that you wish to rely on your statutory right to have your wages paid to you on time and in accordance with the terms of your contract, and that if they do not pay you your full wages on time, every month, you will have no alternative but to seek legal advice. Also make it clear to them that while you are very loyal to them you cannot survive financially if they do not pay your wages and you are getting into financial difficulties because of this. Have the grievance meeting and see what they can come up with. More importantly make careful notes of what is said at the meeting and afterwards write to them to confirm what has been agreed.

The reason you need to deal with the matter in this way is that there is likely to come a time when their failure to pay you will force you to leave. If this happens you may have a claim for constructive dismissal. Unfortunately less than 3% of CD claims succeed - many fail because the employee has failed to exhaust the grievance procedure which you are required to do before making a CD claim. Others fail because they are unable to show that the employer has made a fundamental breach of contract sufficient to bring the contract to an end, however failure to pay wages will normally be viewed as CD if it is serious enough (ie a few days lateness will probably not be sufficient).

Even if you were to win a CD claim, if they haven't got the funds you are not going to get paid, but if the company goes into liquidation or administration, the the Insolvency Payment Service will normally pay up for the basic award and unpaid wages/holiday pay (but not any compensatory award).

I would never advise anyone to leave and claim CD because the risks of losing are too high - but IF you decide to leave regardless, and you have done what you can by way of the grievance procedure before leaving, then at that point you have nothing to lose by making a CD claim.

Hope this makes sense

Dx

Mistral001

OP perhaps if you decided to open a an account with the bank that the business banks with and then drop hints that you are going to that bank to try to get a loan from them, they might take you a bit more seriously. One thing they will fear more than anything else is their own bank knowing that they cannot pay their staff.