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Debate House Prices


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UK Households wealthier than ever before

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Comments

  • Graham_Devon
    Graham_Devon Posts: 58,560 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 10 April 2013 at 6:26PM
    marathonic wrote: »
    I could use it to fund a business start-up or, as referred to above, buy a BMW. After buying the BMW, I could sell the house at any time, paying off the mortgage and STILL hold 50k, less the cost of the BMW, in cash.

    Wow, well thats genius.

    You could have borrowed money on a personal loan for the BMW and have been in exactly the same position.....but hey, if you think you have been uber clever by borrowing it on the mortgage instead, well done you.

    This mindset that borrowing from your house is somehow "free money" is utterly bizzare.

    It's as if many think it's financial genius. It's no different to any other borrowing in essence.
  • dryhat
    dryhat Posts: 1,305 Forumite
    marathonic wrote: »
    Let's say you decide to rent and I buy. If my property increases in value by 50k, I am wealthier. I'm given more options in life because I can release some of that 50k for whatever purpose I see fit.


    Yes, but you are not "releasing" anything.

    Access to that 50k only comes about when you SELL or when you remortgage and BORROW 50k more,

    I've had enough of this debt-junkie nonsense now.

    I'm out.
  • Graham_Devon
    Graham_Devon Posts: 58,560 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    And just to finish off the point...

    Your example of the renter and the owner marathonic.

    The renter simply takes out a personal loan or car loan and buys the BMW. They still have just as much access as you do, regardless of your paper wealth.

    The difference is, you being the genius that you are, are likely to have to pay remortgage arrangement fee's, which will add to your loan, increasing it further more.

    The renter taking a personal loan doesn't pay that.

    Your BMW has cost you the price tag AND the arrangement fee.

    The renters BMW has cost them the price tag.

    But hey, your the genius...I'm just the confused muddler without a clue.
  • ukcarper
    ukcarper Posts: 17,337 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    And just to finish off the point...

    Your example of the renter and the owner marathonic.

    The renter simply takes out a personal loan or car loan and buys the BMW. They still have just as much access as you do, regardless of your paper wealth.

    The difference is, you being the genius that you are, are likely to have to pay remortgage arrangement fee's, which will add to your loan, increasing it further more.

    The renter taking a personal loan doesn't pay that.

    Your BMW has cost you the price tag AND the arrangement fee.

    The renters BMW has cost them the price tag.

    But hey, your the genius...I'm just the confused muddler without a clue.

    Quite a big difference between mortgage interest rates and unsecured personal loan interest rates.
  • marathonic
    marathonic Posts: 1,789 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 10 April 2013 at 7:01PM
    Wow, well thats genius.

    You could have borrowed money on a personal loan for the BMW and have been in exactly the same position.....but hey, if you think you have been uber clever by borrowing it on the mortgage instead, well done you.

    This mindset that borrowing from your house is somehow "free money" is utterly bizzare.

    It's as if many think it's financial genius. It's no different to any other borrowing in essence.

    If I rent and get a personal loan, obviously I have no underlying asset to sell on if I wanted to repay that loan, for example, if I lost my job.

    If I buy, like in my example above, I have many options open to me. True I have debt that I need to repay - but I can repay that via normal monthly repayments, via selling the house, via selling the car, via taking in lodgers or via some combination of the four.

    True, it puts me in a position worse off than someone who bought the same house and didn't draw down equity - but I'm still in a much better position than someone who continued renting.
  • Graham_Devon
    Graham_Devon Posts: 58,560 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    ukcarper wrote: »
    Quite a big difference between mortgage interest rates and unsecured personal loan interest rates.

    Is there?

    You may want to check that.

    Tesco personal loans, £7.5-25k, 5.2%.

    What do you call a "big difference"? Cus mortgages aint that much lower.
  • Graham_Devon
    Graham_Devon Posts: 58,560 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 10 April 2013 at 6:57PM
    marathonic wrote: »
    If I rent and get a personal loan, obviously I have no underlying asset to sell on if I wanted to repay that loan, for example, if I lost my job.

    What, apart from the BMW? Which would lose value just the same if you had taken a loan via a personal loan or adding to your mortgage.

    End result = the same.

    Apart from in this case you will have a mortgage redemption fee to consider (rememeber, you've signed up to a new product) and selling fees to pay. The renter won't.

    We can go on if you like....
  • ess0two
    ess0two Posts: 3,606 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Is there?

    You may want to check that.

    Tesco personal loans, £7.5-25k, 5.2%.

    What do you call a "big difference"? Cus mortgages aint that much lower.

    You'll only got to venture into the loans board to realise many fail to get the headline rate.
    Official MR B fan club,dont go............................
  • marathonic
    marathonic Posts: 1,789 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 10 April 2013 at 7:04PM
    The renter simply takes out a personal loan or car loan and buys the BMW. They still have just as much access as you do, regardless of your paper wealth.

    A personal loan is much less likely to be approved than a mortgage increase - due to security for the bank and the fact that homeowners, in general, are ranked higher on the credit rating scale.

    Also, if the renter loses their job, their only option to repay the loan is to sell the car -and come up with the difference out of what - benefits? I could sell the car, I could sell the house, I could take in lodgers, I could rent the house and move in with friends/relatives, etc.
    The difference is, you being the genius that you are, are likely to have to pay remortgage arrangement fee's, which will add to your loan, increasing it further more.

    The renter taking a personal loan doesn't pay that.

    The best buy tracker mortgage with no arrangement fee has a rate of 2.69%. The best buy personal loan has a rate of 5.1% up to £15,000 or 7.3% over it. Now, get your calculator out :D
    Your BMW has cost you the price tag AND the arrangement fee.

    What arrangement fee.
    The renters BMW has cost them the price tag.

    And an interest rate 2-3 times higher
    But hey, your the genius...I'm just the confused muddler without a clue.

    I wouldn't refer to someone that goes for the cheapest method of borrowing money as a genius... I just call it common sense!
  • Graham_Devon
    Graham_Devon Posts: 58,560 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    ess0two wrote: »
    You'll only got to venture into the loans board to realise many fail to get the headline rate.

    That applies to mortgages too. Ask Hamish. ;)

    Next...
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