UK Households wealthier than ever before

Graham_Devon

marathonic wrote: »

Some might argue that this is the only valid argument that you've made throughout the entire 9 pages of this thread...

Some may, but you changed your figures as a result. (and maybe as a result of the thread in the house buying board?)

Hamish chose to use my maths as a result.

Can't expect mira-coils. But it's a start

IveSeenTheLight

Mr._Pricklepants wrote: »

That calculator has a blatant V.I.
It defaults to a yearly 4% HPI

Indeed it may, but you can adjust.
I put in 1% as a reflection of the current YoY rate.

marathonic

wotsthat wrote: »

I plugged in a few numbers relevant to me - over a lifetime I'll be up the best part of £1m.

However, the calculator is utterly useless because out of that £1m I'll need to replace the kitchen a couple of times, some roof tiles as well and it's not been taken into account. A lot of that £1m is HPI and so just paper and the rest is imputed rent which I refuse to acknowledge as a concept.

But if that £1m is reduce to £900,000 through the fitting of two new, top quality, £50,000 kitchens, are you really worried?

You've got the use of the kitchens over that time and are still better off financially anyway. How likely, as a tenant, are you going to be able to persuade your landlord to fit two £50k kitchens over a tenancy of any length?

I'm not too sure of the imputed rent argument as I've never put much thought into it - I do think of the capital repayments as a vital part of my retirement planning though.

Imputed rent whilst paying down a mortgage is something that you have the freedom to refuse to acknowledge but the savings in rent costs in retirement due to owning a mortgage-free home is something you can't refuse to acknowledge.

By the way, this isn't an argument as such, as I think we're in agreement that, based on the figures previously quoted, buying is considerably more financially savvy than renting.

marathonic

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Some may, but you changed your figures as a result. (and maybe as a result of the thread in the house buying board?)

Hamish chose to use my maths as a result.

Can't expect mira-coils. But it's a start

Changed my figures to satisfy you, whilst still proving my original point.

I made my point initially in the standardly accepted format of comparing interest and home ownership costs to rent. I then simplified it. I then over simplified it. I then used your figures to prove that, even using those, my point still holds true. I then overly over-simplified it. An you still don't get it.... I'm out!

The people most likely to disagree with the original post are, most likely, those who's wealth isn't at the highest level in history. If you fall under that category, and based upon your understanding of the figures presented to you, I'm not really surprised.

Graham_Devon

marathonic wrote: »

Changed my figures to satisfy you, whilst still proving my original point.

I made my point initially in the standardly accepted format of comparing interest and home ownership costs to rent. I then simplified it. I then over simplified it. I then used your figures to prove that, even using those, my point still holds true. I then overly over-simplified it. An you still don't get it.... I'm out!

How many times do I have to tell you I get it!?

You keep saying "i'm out" in protest.

You had to explain it to others on the house buying board though remember. It's not just I that is picking you up on your errors.

Hell, I'm not even going as far as them and claiming you are an estage agent / bookie because your intiial calcs are so absurd. Did claim the debt junkie status though.

lemonjelly

Or, for an alternative perspective:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/figures-from-shelter-reveal-millions-are-one-payday-away-from-not-being-able-to-pay-their-mortgage-or-rent-8567985.html

Shock new figures released by housing charity Shelter today reveal that one in three workers could not pay for their home for more than a month if they lost their job.
Even more alarmingly, 4.4m people - 18 per cent - said that if they lost their jobs this month and couldn’t get a new one right away, they wouldn’t be able to pay their rent or mortgage at all.
As the wave of harsh benefit cuts introduced by the current Coalition government kicks in, the squeeze on people’s budgets will mean saving will become ever harder.
That will mean a surge in demand from people at risk of becoming homeless, Shelter predicts.

Which raises the question, how are people measuring "wealth"?

wotsthat

marathonic wrote: »

But if that £1m is reduce to £900,000 through the fitting of two new, top quality, £50,000 kitchens, are you really worried?

Apologies, I was being sarcastic and the internet is a poor place for this type of 'humour'.

Most people inherently know that ownership is cheaper over the long term and it's difficult to argue otherwise. Once lifetime costs are considered it would need a unique set of circumstances for this not to be the case for a significant number.

However, as you've seen, the obvious can be side-tracked by arguments about whether the household budget includes Kellogs Coco pops or an own-brand version.

Noticed we're not talking about the OP and the apparent increase in household wealth to record highs? That Graham_Devon is good - very good.

wotsthat

lemonjelly wrote: »

Or, for an alternative perspective:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/figures-from-shelter-reveal-millions-are-one-payday-away-from-not-being-able-to-pay-their-mortgage-or-rent-8567985.html

Which raises the question, how are people measuring "wealth"?

Someone at work regularly quotes Shelter derived headlines. The last one was "did you see that something like a quarter of people use Wonga to pay their mortgage?"

Not looked at this one but it will be a journalistic take on a nonsense survey just like all the others.

Graham_Devon

lemonjelly wrote: »

Which raises the question, how are people measuring "wealth"?

Paper wealth.

And this will be written off just like everything else thats a little inconvinient.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

Someone at work regularly quotes Shelter derived headlines. The last one was "did you see that something like a quarter of people use Wonga to pay their mortgage?"

Not looked at this one but it will be a journalistic take on a nonsense survey just like all the others.

Oh, pardon me.

It was written off as nonsense by wotsthat before I could even finish my post.

That was quick work wotsthat.