self assessment - first time & confused!

underwurlde

Hello,

Hope someone can point the obvious out to me!

My GF became self employed so that she could work in her friend's shop in March 2012. Due to a very low income she ceased on November 2012. During that period of time she took home less than £5,000. In December 2012 she went onto JSA and has since got a full-time job.

Now it is April and I assume she has to fill in a tax-return? But how, the only selectable tax year is April 2011 - April 2012? Can I assume we are attempting to fill in a tax return too early?

No doubt our criminal intention to avoid paying £0 tax for her minimal income will result in a £100 fine.

Anyway, thanks for any help,

Andy (and Sue).

Davide123

Yes you are too early, you have to wait until 6 April.

agrinnall

It might even be a few days after April 6th, I seem to remember last year I couldn't start mine until around the 13th. And Sue will have until January 31st 2014 to complete it, so no rush (but I'd strongly suggest that it's not left to the last minute).

cotswoldaccountant

Working in a shop sounds like a position of employment, rather than self employment. It is impossible to know without full details of the position, but are you sure that your wife was self employed rather than employed?

There is some useful info on the HMRC website regarding employment status:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/paye/employees/start-leave/status.htm#1

underwurlde

Thank you for the replies!

Yes, Sue is (or rather, was) definitely self employed. The owner of the shop insisted. The shop was set up also in March 2012 and (in the owner's words) "did not want anyone on the books". Hence I set Sue up and registered her on-line via the HMRC website. She has a UTR number etc. and we are able to log-in and post an on-line tax return etc.

After getting a job 2 months ago, her role is now that of an 'employee' and therefore she pays PAYE. So I guess now we have to declare somehow that she is no longer self-employed? Or can it just be left? If left, does a tax return need be submitted yearly to declare £0 income from any self-employed income?

Also (apologies for all the questions) if April 6th is the deadline, then any submittals of a tax return after that date would be late, and hence a £100 fine enforceable?

Wading through the infinite pages of information on the HMRC website has not made these obvious questions clear to me. Perhaps I am blind though

Thanks once again everyone,

Andy (& Sue).

londonTiger

cotswoldaccountant wrote: »

Working in a shop sounds like a position of employment, rather than self employment. It is impossible to know without full details of the position, but are you sure that your wife was self employed rather than employed?

There is some useful info on the HMRC website regarding employment status:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/paye/employees/start-leave/status.htm#1

this, i did a module in busines taxation when I was at uni. There is actually very strict laws on what is employee status and what is self empoyed. Practically everyone could declare themselves self employed and then claim back all their travel money, lunch money and other costs related to their job. So the taxman has put in strict requirements to qualify as "self employed" rather than be a employee on payroll.

I am certain that working in a shop is very far from the "grey area". Unless you can convince HMRC that you were a consultant of some sort.

Having said that the 5K is pretty low income - I'm sure you can convince the taxman that you were a consultant of some sort.

Cazza

Please read the HMRC guidance carefully, it's not the shop owner's decision to insist Sue is self-employed, HMRC specify the rules to "qualify" as self-employed.

6th April isn't the deadline, it's the last day of the current 2012/13 tax year. You have until 31st January 2014 to submit the tax return. And yes, there is a question which asks if you are still self employed so you can inform them via that.

Davide123

londonTiger wrote: »

this, i did a module in busines taxation when I was at uni. There is actually very strict laws on what is employee status and what is self empoyed. Practically everyone could declare themselves self employed and then claim back all their travel money, lunch money and other costs related to their job. So the taxman has put in strict requirements to qualify as "self employed" rather than be a employee on payroll.

I am certain that working in a shop is very far from the "grey area". Unless you can convince HMRC that you were a consultant of some sort.

Having said that the 5K is pretty low income - I'm sure you can convince the taxman that you were a consultant of some sort.

I agree
I'm not sure hmrc would really go after you as only 5k, and you are self employed and will pay tax & ni (has she paid class 2 nics? )

Funky_Bold_Ribena

underwurlde wrote: »

Thank you for the replies!

Yes, Sue is (or rather, was) definitely self employed. The owner of the shop insisted. The shop was set up also in March 2012 and (in the owner's words) "did not want anyone on the books". Hence I set Sue up and registered her on-line via the HMRC website. She has a UTR number etc. and we are able to log-in and post an on-line tax return etc.

I'll bet they did - it meant no holiday pay, no sick pay and no other benefits. Still doesn't mean she was actually 'self-employed' - it just means that you have helped the shop owner to get out of their duties as an employer.

Anyway - you should be able to post your self assessment return soon enough.

suso

If she started in March 2012 , has the 2011/12 tax return been completed ?

The 2012/13 ones should b ready to complete some time after April the 8th

Last year it took a little longer as the new tax year coincided with the Easter Weekend.

furrybertie

doubt she was actually self-employed but you can ask for a self-assessment form to fill out so that all taxable income gets counted - she may find that she's still under the tax threshold anyway. self-assessment is different to declaring self employment - it used to be that you got 3 months to declare self-employment but now it has to be straight away (to my limited knowledge)

I had trouble when I went self-employed - told not to by HMRC then 6 months later told to do so... they fined me £100 despite me trying to do this 3 times in the first place and told not too... I tried complaining but never got my money back.