Do I Have To pay It?

gb12345

dont.ask.dont.get wrote: »

It wasn't part of his estate, the house became mine on payment of the Insurance, which I actually paid. That has all been finalised, and the deeds have now been transferred to my name, there is no question of the house being sold.

Who determined it wasn't part of his estate? Did you/your son get legal advice at the time of your partner's death?

dont.ask.dont.get wrote: »

I am going to the CAB

Forget the CAB, you need proper legal advice. Find a solicitor who offers free initial consultations and book an appointment.

purple_haze

[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]S421A Insolvency Act 1986 contains provisions which effectively mean that a deceased's share of a jointly owned property can be brought back into the estate to pay creditors. [/FONT]


[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]From a creditor's point of view the process of recovery is complex and expensive and for that reason most institutions would be unlikely to undertake the process to recover as small a debt as £5,000. However, if the conservatory company is a small business it make take a different view – it doesn't appear that the debt is disputed and,looking at the matter objectively, the OP has personally received a substantial improvement to his/her home and the conservatory company might think he/she ought to make some contribution towards it. [/FONT]

gb12345

purple_haze wrote: »

[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]From a creditor's point of view the process of recovery is complex and expensive and for that reason most institutions would be unlikely to undertake the process to recover as small a debt as £5,000. However, if the conservatory company is a small business it make take a different view – it doesn't appear that the debt is disputed and,looking at the matter objectively, the OP has personally received a substantial improvement to his/her home and the conservatory company might think he/she ought to make some contribution towards it. [/FONT]

From the look of the original post, it would appear to be a loan company that has provided the finance (either as part of a finance package arranged by the conservatory company or independently), so it is unlikely to be the conservatory company chasing the money as they will have been paid when the work was done.

dont.ask.dont.get

gb12345 wrote: »

From the look of the original post, it would appear to be a loan company that has provided the finance (either as part of a finance package arranged by the conservatory company or independently), so it is unlikely to be the conservatory company chasing the money as they will have been paid when the work was done.

The loan was borrowed from Northern Rock, to do home improvements, the conservatory company have been paid.
I have this morning managed to seek some legal advice, from what I have been told from the paperwork that I have, the bank do have a case. However, now the deeds are in my name it is not up to me to make any attempt to pay, it will be up to them to establish the legalities. They have no rights at all to expect me to supply them with any information regarding the property, any information will have to be obtained by the bank, the opinion of the solicitor is that they will not bother to proceed as the costs will outweigh the amount owed.
Their advice was to continue to return any documentation addressed to my partner unopened.
I should say that the mortgage was not from Northern Rock it was from a different bank.
Thanks for all you helpful advice.

gb12345

dont.ask.dont.get wrote: »

The loan was borrowed from Northern Rock, to do home improvements, the conservatory company have been paid.
I have this morning managed to seek some legal advice, from what I have been told from the paperwork that I have, the bank do have a case. However, now the deeds are in my name it is not up to me to make any attempt to pay, it will be up to them to establish the legalities. They have no rights at all to expect me to supply them with any information regarding the property, any information will have to be obtained by the bank, the opinion of the solicitor is that they will not bother to proceed as the costs will outweigh the amount owed.

Was this legal advice from a proper solicitor and not just an "expert" at the CAB? As it does not match what I was told by a solicitor when I acted as Executor for my late father.

By accepting the position of Executor, you have agreed to certain legal requirements, of which one is settling any outstanding debts from the proceeds of the estate before dividing the remains to the beneficiaries.

It is my understanding that Executors can be held legally liable if they fail to properly administer the Estate, including a liability to creditors.

So, Northern Rock could decide to go after you personally for the money and it would not be that difficult for them to prove that you did not act correctly in your role as Executor.

It could end up getting very expensive for you, as they would pile all their legal fees on top of what is owed from the loan, plus there would be any fees for your own representation.

dont.ask.dont.get wrote: »

Their advice was to continue to return any documentation addressed to my partner unopened.

As long as it is addressed personally to your late partner then this I would agree with. However, if they start writing to "The Executors of The Late X" then you (assuming you were the executor) will be in a sticky position if you play games and return those.

dont.ask.dont.get

gb12345 wrote: »

Was this legal advice from a proper solicitor and not just an "expert" at the CAB? As it does not match what I was told by a solicitor when I acted as Executor for my late father.

By accepting the position of Executor, you have agreed to certain legal requirements, of which one is settling any outstanding debts from the proceeds of the estate before dividing the remains to the beneficiaries.

It is my understanding that Executors can be held legally liable if they fail to properly administer the Estate, including a liability to creditors.

So, Northern Rock could decide to go after you personally for the money and it would not be that difficult for them to prove that you did not act correctly in your role as Executor.

It could end up getting very expensive for you, as they would pile all their legal fees on top of what is owed from the loan, plus there would be any fees for your own representation.



As long as it is addressed personally to your late partner then this I would agree with. However, if they start writing to "The Executors of The Late X" then you (assuming you were the executor) will be in a sticky position if you play games and return those.

My partners estate did not exceed £5k, so there were no legal executors so to speak, all my son and I did was get an affidavit signed and witnessed to confirm who I was for the purpose of transferring the deeds, and claiming the insurance. I also sent a copy to the bank, to release what funds he had. We then paid all the bills we had, and could pay.
The credit card company accepted the death certificate and wrote off the debt, which was only very small. Northern Rock were also sent a copy, and did nothing until recently. I paid the funeral costs, and his tax bill, plus the utility bills .I was not an official named executor, he never left a will, it was all very straight forward, the person I spoke to today, who was a legal aid solicitor, said that from what he could see we had done all that we should have.

gb12345

dont.ask.dont.get wrote: »

My partners estate did not exceed £5k

We go back to whether you were "joint tenants" or "tenants in common", which you still haven't confirmed (but by your earlier comment that the solicitor said the lender do have a case, I would guess you were [STRIKE]joint[/STRIKE] tenants in common).

If this is the case, are you saying that the value of his share of the equity in the property (after the mortgage was paid off by the insurance), plus all his other assets amounted to less than £5k?

dont.ask.dont.get

gb12345 wrote: »

We go back to whether you were "joint tenants" or "tenants in common", which you still haven't confirmed (but by your earlier comment that the solicitor said the lender do have a case, I would guess you were joint tenants).

If this is the case, are you saying that the value of his share of the equity in the property (after the mortgage was paid off by the insurance), plus all his other assets amounted to less than £5k?

It appears that we were joint tenants, however. It was never pointed out at the time the deeds were transferred, the legalities were done seamlessly. I had no idea that such a difference existed. The property is now in my name, and as it stands the mortgage was paid off on his death.
No where on any documentation was it written that I was the executor of his estate, therefore I do not see that I can be held responsible for incorrectly distributing his estate, there was nothing left, and I will not be selling my home to pay a miserable £5k.

As the solicitor told me to leave the ball firmly in their court and refrain from answering any questions unless personally directed at me, he seems to think it is all them trying to put the squeeze on me.
Still we shall see, watch this space.

gb12345

dont.ask.dont.get wrote: »

It appears that we were joint tenants, however. It was never pointed out at the time the deeds were transferred, the legalities were done seamlessly. I had no idea that such a difference existed. The property is now in my name, and as it stands the mortgage was paid off on his death.
No where on any documentation was it written that I was the executor of his estate, therefore I do not see that I can be held responsible for incorrectly distributing his estate, there was nothing left, and I will not be selling my home to pay a miserable £5k.

What should have happened as he died intestate is that an administrator should have been appointed, which would likely have been you as Next of Kin. They/You would then be responsible for the administration of the estate.

It would appear that the Estate was not administered properly as you (or whoever the adminsitrator was) transferred his assets to yourself without paying off either the loan or the other liabilities.

What I don't know is the legal ramifications of this and whether you would be personally liable in the same way an Executor would be.

dont.ask.dont.get wrote: »

As the solicitor told me to leave the ball firmly in their court and refrain from answering any questions unless personally directed at me, he seems to think it is all them trying to put the squeeze on me.
Still we shall see, watch this space.

Is the solicitor fully aware that you were tenants in common and that it would appear that the Estate was not administered properly?

noh

If the property was held as joint tenants then it did not form part of the deceaseds estate.
Probate was not needed to transfer the property into the OPs sole name which indicates that it was held as joint tenants as stated.
If the property was held as tenants in common then the deceaseds share of the property would form part of the estate and probate would be needed to transfer ownership.

Nothern Rock may issue an insolvency order to try and recover the debt.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cardsloans/article-1689651/Does-my-uncles-debt-die-with-him.html

http://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/casehelpmanual/D/DeceasedInsolvents.htm