Oyster card weird system??

Shelldean

My son 17 has an 16+ oyster card, usually just used for the free bus travel.
But last week he had to trvel into London so I checked the fares, and worked out he'd need £2.90 each way. So duly loaded his card up with £6 and sent him on his way.

Luckly he had some spare cash with him as he was charged more. He checked on exited the station as we've discovered in the past that he cant travel with a negative balance on his card. In total he was charged £8.25

I rechecked his journey and realised MY error. I'd put in National rail to National rail ( thus assuming he'd stay above ground) when re-entered the journey using national rail to Underground and it came up with a fare of £4.30, meaning he should've been charged £8.60??
I also found that if I put in local station to London Victoria national rail then Victoris underground to Embankment underground the total fare was £3.95. Same journey 35p cheaper, so surely he should've been charged that meaning total was £ £7.90??

as I couldn't work out what exactly he'd been charged I called TFL for an explanation.

Turns out on the way there he hung aroung Victoria for appox 1/2hour meaning he was charged two fares, which equalled £3.95. On the way home he went straight from the underground to the train and was charged £4.30.

Both ways was the exact same journey, yet because he spent time at Victoria on the way there he got a cheaper fare??

Am I the only one who thinks this is mad way of charging?

dacouch

I'm guessing the second journey was during rush hour eg peak time

Shelldean

nope both were in off peak.

they seriously charge you more if you go straight from the train to tube, rather than hang around for 20 mins then you can have a cheaper fare.

edited to add he only hung around at Victoria as his mate was stupid and tried to get away with child fare, and got caught, so DS waited for them. Other wise he would've been charged the higher fare both ways as he would gone straight through both times.

This was confirmed by CS at TFL when I called to query what exactly he'd been charged

Altarf

Shelldean wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks this is mad way of charging?

Yes it is a mad way of charging, but that is the benefit of the privatisation of our railway system, there is no single organisation responsible for setting ticket prices.

To explain it you need to look at this web page (and click the 16-18 tab) -
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14414.aspx#16through

I guess from the fares you quoted you live in zone 5, and if you look at the National Rail fares map, your station is on a red route not a green route.

So on the way in to London your son paid a zone 5 to zone 1 National Rail fare on Oyster of £2.90 off peak. Then because he waited at London Victoria the tube was treated as a second journey and he was charged £1.05 for a zone 1 only (look at this page again clicking the 16-18 tab - http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14416.aspx).

On the way back because he didn't delay it was treated as a single journey not two, and because it involved National Rail on a red route he was charged an adult fare off peak zone 1 to 5 of £4.30 (look at this page - http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14414.aspx#adultthrough).

This page tells you what amount of time is allowed at each station for an interchange between one line and another, when either it is treated as one journey or two - http://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/out-of-station-interchange-osi/ So at London Victoria National Rail to the tube it is 20 minutes, and interestingly 40 minutes if you are going the other way, tube to train, or 30 minutes train to train.

Anyway, usually it is advantageous to treat the journey as a single journey, but the problem in your case is that by doing so your 17 year old son is treated as an adult for the whole journey.

Solution if a regular journey is two oyster cards, on for the train and one for the tube, but probably not worth the hassle for 45p.

dzug1

There is a way round it - hop on any bus, touch the card (free I understand from what you said originally) then hop off again and back to the tube/train

Shelldean

Altarf,

you are correct his starting station and end station ( different ones, Carshalton & Carshalton Beeches) are both in zone 5.
Just seems madness to me, esp as the first time I checked I thought he was going to Charing Cross so entered that as the destination, but chose Charing Cross national rail. That journey was only £2.30 as it assumed he'd travel the whole way by overground train. Although not quite sure how he'd manage it on the way there? As no easy route, coming home might've been easier as Carshalton Beeches has a route via London bridge.

it was only cos he was paranoid about being stranded I gave him a bit of extra money 'just in case' good job i did.

The single fare finder online is too confusing, am just glad next time we need to cross London to get to Liverpool street I'll be with him and can top up as he and his twin need it!!!

Shelldean

dzug1 wrote: »

There is a way round it - hop on any bus, touch the card (free I understand from what you said originally) then hop off again and back to the tube/train

Forgive my ignorance but how would that help???

Shelldean

Altarf thanks for those links :beer: means I can work out our fares to Liverpool street for myself an adult, my twins 16-18 and my youngest 11-15!!!!

silvercar

Shelldean wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance but how would that help???

Touching in on a bus breaks the journey. Otherwise you risk the system considering it as one journey and by exceeding the maximum time for the journey you are charged the twice the maximum fare.

There are rules on "out of station interchanges" which allow you to make one journey by changing at one station for one nearby as part of the same journey. By breaking the journey into 2 smaller ones you can be charged less overall if the single journey would exceed the total time allowed.