Is there such a thing as a truly independant IFA

doughnutmachine

atush wrote: »

You need to brush up on your english. 'Lots' was wrong. 'Some' may have been appropriate but wouldn't have fit your agenda here.

what agenda would i have? the agenda where i think some IFAs act in a professional ethical manner and some don't?

perhaps that's a better agenda than saying that IFAs never do any wrong? i'd also imagine my "agenda" is better than insulting anyone that criticises the IFA profession?

atush

You bash pretty much all IFAs from what I have read of your posts.

Yes, some IFAs are crap. We've had one recently on another thread. Yes, I DIY most of my investments. but I do know that many confuse IFAs with RFAs and plain old FAs.

And I do think IFAs are professionals.

And i didn't insult you, just corrected your use of words.

doughnutmachine

atush wrote: »

You bash pretty much all IFAs from what I have read of your posts.

Yes, some IFAs are crap. We've had one recently on another thread. Yes, I DIY most of my investments. but I do know that many confuse IFAs with RFAs and plain old FAs.

And I do think IFAs are professionals.

And i didn't insult you, just corrected your use of words.

praise be. good to know that you realise not every IFA is a paragon of virtue that knows his subject. certainly not what you wrote earlier in this thread.

i believe the posts where you have been insulting people have been removed.

GhIFA

But none of the IFA's here have suggested that IFA's never do any wrong, and have demonstrated plenty of times on this forum that if, in our opinion, someone is not getting the service they should from their IFA, what they should do to rectify that.

I can take criticism if it's constructive and considered, what frustrates me is the "logic of the sweeping generalisation" that has been applied by many on this thread, suggesting that because some IFA's are bad, then all are. You picked up on the comment I made about being incompetent at your job - that demonstrates the point. It frustrated you? It was using that same logic that has been thrown about on this thread in relation to IFA's - along with other tired old cliches and inaccuracies.

If you'd couched your original post in the terms you have above then it would have been more balanced, rather than weighing in with an inaccurate statement, that you can't possibly know or evidence, about lots of clients being stupid.

I'm all for having a debate, but when the only things that some people can add to a debate are inaccuracies, childish jibes, and insults, and can't come back with any intelligent reasoning to back up accusations that are being bandied about, then it lacks intelligence and smacks of an agenda.

doughnutmachine

GhIFA wrote: »

If you'd couched your original post in the terms you have above then it would have been more balanced, rather than weighing in with an inaccurate statement, that you can't possibly know or evidence, about lots of clients being stupid.

for me it just seems that a lot of IFA clients pay a lot of money for little in return. i mean seriously how hard is it to do an annual projection for a client? maybe a few minutes in excel?

how hard is it to "rebalance a portfolio"? that just means selling shares in a top performing sector and investing the money in a bottom selling sector?

ok, these skills have a worth to IFA customers, but not a couple of thousand pounds worth.....

i just object to people coming on here making out that IFAs can do no wrong - now that really is a childish attitude.

GhIFA

doughnutmachine wrote: »

for me it just seems that a lot of IFA clients pay a lot of money for little in return. i mean seriously how hard is it to do an annual projection for a client? maybe a few minutes in excel?

how hard is it to "rebalance a portfolio"? that just means selling shares in a top performing sector and investing the money in a bottom selling sector?

ok, these skills have a worth to IFA customers, but not a couple of thousand pounds worth.....

i just object to people coming on here making out that IFAs can do no wrong - now that really is a childish attitude.

Which, for at least the 4th time in this thread, I have not said.

There's more to it than a "few minutes in excel", which has been discussed in threads numerous times before. You don't see the value in it, that's fine that's your prerogative, other people do, that's theirs. Other people deciding to take a different view to you doesn't make them stupid.

Saying things over and over again doesn't make them true. Ignoring the facts that disprove these things because they don't fit with your view/agenda is..how can I put it???..a childish attitude to take.

doughnutmachine

GhIFA wrote: »

Which, for at least the 4th time in this thread, I have not said.

There's more to it than a "few minutes in excel", which has been discussed in threads numerous times before. You don't see the value in it, that's fine that's your prerogative, other people do, that's theirs. Other people deciding to take a different view to you doesn't make them stupid.

Saying things over and over again doesn't make them true. Ignoring the facts that disprove these things because they don't fit with your view/agenda is..how can I put it???..a childish attitude to take.

i have a time/ value function on my calculator. i can work out the future value of a portfolio (including future monthly contributions) in about 5 seconds... it just seems weird that people spend thousands on IFA reports and the projection is the "interesting" part to the report.

to make clear, it wasn't you that was spouting the "IFAs can do no wrong" agenda. sorry for that confusion.

jem16

doughnutmachine wrote: »

praise be. good to know that you realise not every IFA is a paragon of virtue that knows his subject. certainly not what you wrote earlier in this thread.

Perhaps you could point to the specific post where atush has said that every IFA is a paragon of virtue as I'm having difficulty finding it?

i believe the posts where you have been insulting people have been removed.

I've followed this thread from the start. I do not believe any posts have been removed.

doughnutmachine wrote: »

for me it just seems that a lot of IFA clients pay a lot of money for little in return. i mean seriously how hard is it to do an annual projection for a client? maybe a few minutes in excel?

how hard is it to "rebalance a portfolio"? that just means selling shares in a top performing sector and investing the money in a bottom selling sector?

ok, these skills have a worth to IFA customers, but not a couple of thousand pounds worth.....

How many IFAs have you actually used? I would guess at none based on the above comments.

i just object to people coming on here making out that IFAs can do no wrong - now that really is a childish attitude.

Again could you point to the post where anyone has actually said that?

doughnutmachine wrote: »

i have a time/ value function on my calculator. i can work out the future value of a portfolio (including future monthly contributions) in about 5 seconds... it just seems weird that people spend thousands on IFA reports and the projection is the "interesting" part to the report.

Having actually used the services of an IFA for the last 7 years, I can categorically state that any projections I receive are the least "interesting" part.

In fact the whole idea that all an IFA does is projections and rebalancing is very simplistic to say the least. What it does point to is someone who actually has no idea of what is involved spouting off and pretending that he does. ( just of course like your 2 previous banned usernames)

The actual work carried out by an IFA goes into much more depth and will usually include (not by any means exhaustive);

1. A comprehensive factfind to ensure in-depth knowledge of the client's needs and objectives.

2. Tax planning to choose the most suitable vehicle for any investments required thus making the best use of any tax incentives available.

3. Selecting the best platform or other means to facilitate the investments.

4. Deciding on the most suitable investments to meet the required objectives by building an appropriate portfolio.

5. Providing ongoing servicing (if appropriate) with at least yearly reviews to ensure that objectives are being met. This may well include rebalancing (not necessarily just selling high areas to bolster low areas), Bed&ISA, Bed&Pension etc.

6. Often providing advice that actually says "don't do this as it would be a bad idea".

to make clear, it wasn't you that was spouting the "IFAs can do no wrong" agenda. sorry for that confusion.

No it wasn't and I am having difficulty actually finding anyone who has said this.

However from your previous posts, most of them have been spouting the "IFAs can do no right" and "a lot of their clients are stupid" agenda.

It does really get tiring after a while. All IFAs are not a "paragon of virtue" but neither are they "the devil's spawn" that those who have never actually used the service of an IFA would have you believe.

atush

Jem, you are correct i never said this and have advised someone today to make a formal complaint against an IFA.

But like you I am tired of the anti IFA agenda by some incl bigfreddie who I may have implied somewhere today was a child. Maybe because some here are actually children mascarading as adults, and maybe because he was acting childishly. Now at least I know who reported the post (if it was removed have no idea). but unlike Donut, I didn't call anyone stupid.

I really really do not understand, despite being a mainly DIY type of investor, why some hate IFAs so much, esp those who have never used one. It beggars belief really.

and although some IFAs work out of a group, many are one/2 men bands. So really are independant.

doughnutmachine

jem16 wrote: »

The actual work carried out by an IFA goes into much more depth and will usually include (not by any means exhaustive);

1. A comprehensive factfind to ensure in-depth knowledge of the client's needs and objectives.

2. Tax planning to choose the most suitable vehicle for any investments required thus making the best use of any tax incentives available.

3. Selecting the best platform or other means to facilitate the investments.

4. Deciding on the most suitable investments to meet the required objectives by building an appropriate portfolio.

5. Providing ongoing servicing (if appropriate) with at least yearly reviews to ensure that objectives are being met. This may well include rebalancing (not necessarily just selling high areas to bolster low areas), Bed&ISA, Bed&Pension etc.

6. Often providing advice that actually says "don't do this as it would be a bad idea".

1. How long does it really take to have a chat with a client and find out his net worth/ income and when he wants to retire? Couple of hours?

2. Tax planning, like put the max amount into your isa and pension? Any more detailed tax advice is best left to an accountant?

3. You mean where to hold the chosen funds? Is that advice worth a couple of thousand to you? How about using google to find the best platform?

4. Advice like “keep in cash any money you will need in the near future” ie people saving up for a house and people approaching retirement? Or “Invest in shares” for people saving for a long term goal ie someone saving for retirement in 20 years time?

Do you just hope that directly held shares or property will not be a better investment over the coming decades? After all IFAs can’t advise on them…

5. Bed and ISA? You mean make use of the full years cgt entitlement?

Yeah, and fire up excel to make a projection of the likely future portfolio value – good couple of minutes work there.

6. You mean the ostrich farming investment I made might not have been one of my better decisions?

It just seems to me that the advice given by an IFA to a typical client is common sense or could be learned in a couple of weeks of research. Sorry, I personally don’t see the worth of spending thousands each year on that type of help….

Of course some people might be happier with the help of an IFA, and that is their choice. But do I think I’m losing out by not having an IFA…. A definite no