Handed back keys after BR

At_a_loss_2

Hi all I 'handed back my keys' on the 8/2/13 with the following letter:

Date

account no.

Dear Sirs,

We are writing to inform you that we have given up possession of the property (Property you wish to be repossessed) to yourselves on a voluntary basis. We cannot afford the mortgage payments and are under a protected trust deed due to exceptional financial pressures.

We do not object to any repossession action through the courts.

The property is left in good condition. We have informed the local council that we have left the property empty therefore it is exempt from council tax for 6 months. Following this time period it is exempt without time limit as the dwelling is in the possession of the lender.

Thank you for your assistance; we shall have no further contact with you regarding this situation.

Type name here
DON'T SIGN IT

I am now living in rented accomadation,

I received a 'redirected' letter from Santander a few weeks ago which included a 'form to be signed' before they could proceed, now i thought the letter that i sent gave authority and all i can assume is they wish me to sign admitting liability for costs and shortfall?
Anyway i have ignored this letter due to being Bankrupt 14/2/12 and not wanting to sign anything. Now a few weeks has gone by and Santander have sent another letter and form to my Rented address (i don't know how they found my new address so quick as i haven't supplied it).
I have replied with another copy of the original letter along with the 'form' unsigned back to the Santander saying 'i wont sign anything due to bankruptcy'.

• Can anyone tell me if i have done the 'right thing' and what i should expect next?

• Should i have sent a copy of my BR order even though i have now been discharged 14/2/13 (not recieved court confirmation letter yet)?

• Can someone also confirm if any shortfall from eventual sale and subsequent costs would fall into my original bankruptcy even though i have been discharged?

Thanks in advance

Ian

nuttyp

Hi our Br took place after the hosue was repossessed. So if you have lived in the house after BR and have now only given it up, then from what i know it wont be included. What date was the BR? Was it after the date you surrenderred.

At_a_loss_2

Thanks for the reply:

Surrender date was 8/2/13 and my BR was 14/2/12........i like many others foolishly thought i could manage when i knew i couldn't

National_Debtline

Hi there At a loss

The precise date of your bankruptcy doesn't matter - any shortfall owed to Santander will be a "provable" debt in your bankruptcy regardless of when the surrender/repossession/sale actually take place.

Do not sign anything Santander send you.

It may indeed be worth sending them a copy of any bankruptcy-related paperwork to make the situation very clear.

Regards

Dennis @NDL

fermi

At_a_loss wrote: »

all i can assume is they wish me to sign admitting liability for costs and shortfall?

Sounds like it to me.

As long as you have not signed anything after BR admitting liability, then the shortfall will fall into the BR.

lilybankrupt

My understanding is that any debt incurred prior to the moment of bankruptcy is included in the bankruptcy (apart from the excluded stuff like Student Loans I think).

Your mortgage was a debt incurred pre-bankruptcy. Obviously the lender will realise the value of the house, but any shortfall was a pre-bankruptcy debt (even though not 'crystallised' till much later), and so falls into your bankruptcy.

I checked with the insolvency helpline on this, as I think I will still be living in a house going through repo when I declare BR - they confirmed that the shortfall WILL be part of bankruptcy, provided I don't do anything after BR to 'reinstate' the debt, such as renegotiating the mortgage or signing a deed of acknowledgement.

I actually asked the question 'what about if repo happens years after BR / discharge' and they said the rule still applies - the debt was incurred before BR and is therefore included.

fermi

lilybankrupt wrote: »

My understanding is that any debt incurred prior to the moment of bankruptcy is included in the bankruptcy (apart from the excluded stuff like Student Loans I think).

Your mortgage was a debt incurred pre-bankruptcy. Obviously the lender will realise the value of the house, but any shortfall was a pre-bankruptcy debt (even though not 'crystallised' till much later), and so falls into your bankruptcy.

Exactly. The definition of a bankruptcy debt is crystal clear in the legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/45/section/382

“Bankruptcy debt”, in relation to a bankrupt, means (subject to the next subsection) any of the following—

(a) any debt or liability to which he is subject at the commencement of the bankruptcy,

(b) any debt or liability to which he may become subject after the commencement of the bankruptcy (including after his discharge from bankruptcy) by reason of any obligation incurred before the commencement of the bankruptcy,

At_a_loss_2

Well that's a weight off thank you..............as i have refused to sign their 'form' do you have any idea of what will happen now/next? will the process just go through the courts and repossess that way or will they take 'my authority' of voluntary from my printed letter?

Ian

fermi

Ball is in their court really. If they want to cost themselves a fortune in legal costs delaying things, then they will only have themselves to blame.

As said, you could resend a copy of the BR paperwork to make it clear you are not falling for their ploy. Just be careful not to acknowledge any post BR liability.

At_a_loss_2

Thanks again and there is no chance of me signing/admitting any liabilty.

Glad i found this forum, fantastic response and great advice

At_a_loss_2

I do however now have another issue, I am a declared BR and from the information gathered above any shortfall and costs would go into my BR order..........now my wife (now seperated) who is a 'joint' mortgagee is not BR, would she be liable for 1/2 of the debt or would they chase her for the 'whole' debt/shortfall?

Sorry if this confuses things

Ian