Child Abduction and Child Support

fedupdad

I am new to this site but wished to know peoples views as regards to my circumstances.

My three children were abducted by their mother to Dublin, Ireland a few months ago, I have not seen them since. This was despite the fact that she had applied to court to leave the UK and whilst that case was ongoing decided to leave anyway. The judge had made it clear that she was not allowed to leave the UK without his permission or mine and the court order also stated that. She went anyway.

Despite my complaint to the police they decided to take no further action against her despite in my view that it was a clear case of child abduction.

I then applied to the High Court in Ireland to have the children returned under the Hague Convention and this is now in the final stages but is still ongoing.

As for child support this was paid through the CSA by me every month but stopped when she left the UK because they said that she was now outside the jurisdiction. As such no mechanism was in place for me to pay anything to her as it was paid directly to the CSA and I did not have a bank account number for her.

I have now been served with a summons from an Irish court demanding that I attend a hearing to determine child support with regard to my three children despite the fact that the issue of whether they can continue to live in Ireland has not been resolved.

My question is what would you do if you were in this position? I will be honest and tell you that I do not feel comfortable paying a child abductor but do accept that I am the father and have some form of responsibility for them. If you were to offer some form of payment would you expect any travel costs I will now have to be taken into account? Also would you attend a court hearing in a foreign country?

Many thanks

Voyager2002

Deepest sympathy for your appalling situation.

What does your solicitor say? I have no idea about the legalities, but morally I think that it is sufficient to say that the mother can at any time obtain child support by bringing the children back to the UK: until she does so, she cannot reasonably expect any kind of support.

FBaby

What a silly woman!!! Pay up and focus on your children coming back. Would you be prepared to take them on full-time if this is ordered but she refuses to come back herself? Remember that it is about the welfare of the children and THEY don't deserve having to do with less, especially in light of having to deal with such upheaval, because their mum did wrong.

Marisco

fedupdad wrote: »

Also would you attend a court hearing in a foreign country?

Southern Ireland a foreign country???? :eek: I would certainly attend a court in Dublin yes.

lazer

Marisco wrote: »

Southern Ireland a foreign country???? :eek: I would certainly attend a court in Dublin yes.

Legally yes - I am from Northern Ireland, and the Republic of Ireland is a seperate foreign country (even though I consider myself Irish I recognise that the current legal situation)

OP - are you from Northern Ireland or Mainland UK - the situation may be slightly different depending on the answer (not sure if it is though)?

Personally I would not pay maintenance to someone that took my children out of the country away from me without my permission.

Would I go to court - I would ask my solicitor - if there is a chance it could help get my children back then yes I would.

Marisco

lazer wrote: »

Legally yes - I am from Northern Ireland, and the Republic of Ireland is a seperate foreign country (even though I consider myself Irish I recognise that the current legal situation)

Legally I suppose it is, but I don't think many people would class it as "foreign" though. I was thinking more of the court aspect of it, it's hardly Nigeria, Saudi, etc. At least they speak English!!

kevin137

An irish court has NO power over you, all they can do is "request", if this request is ignored, then it will be an order made in that court and then sent to a UK court for enforcement, this process is called REMO.

However, if you choose not to attend, and there is in fact a case of abduction, then when it is listed in a UK court, i would attend there. This would then give you an opportunity to supply legal evidence that there is an abduction and they will pass the paperwork back instructing the irish court for the mother to return th children in line with the legal ruling in the UK court.

There is no need for you to attend in Ireland, and REMO will run it's course, they cannot order payment in the UK if the abduction case has not been resolved, and this will clarify with the Irish court and may actually hurry things up on that side as well...

fedupdad

Thanks for all the replies.

Lazer - I live in England (UK)

Marisco - I take your point about Saudi etc but Southern Ireland has a separate jurisdiction and as such is abroad in that sense. Like you say they do speak english.

Kevin137 - The summons I have received actually says it "commands me" to attend. Not sure how they can do that. I am sure if a UK court summonsed someone in Ireland they would not be able to force them to attend.

EclipsedMind

I would add to Kevin's advice which is sound that it would be in your best interest to write to the court explaining you will not be able to attend and giving them an outline of the abduction case and the case number.

This might cause the judge to consider postponing the maintenance order application until it is decided whether the children are being illegally retained. If they still go ahead and make an order then as Kevin said you should go to the UK hearing and put your defence that the children are illegally detained in Ireland and there is international child abduction case in progress.

EM

fedupdad

Just an update.

I have decided to travel over for the court hearing in Dublin next month not least because I would not want my kids to ever think I was a dead beat dad.

Has anyone had any experience with child support hearings in Southern Ireland? I am effectively going in blind and I am not even sure what documents I need to take.

Does anyone have any opinion as to whether they think child support will be ordered whilst there is child abduction actions taking place? If It was ordered against me if you were me would you pay up now or let REMO take its course?

Grateful for any responses

kevin137

If you attend the hearing and agree to pay, you are effectively agreeing that the mother has the right to the children being with her, and by doing that you are saying that it is OK that she took them abroad...!!!

At the very least you should NOT be agreeing to pay while in court and insisting that she abide by the court ruling in the UK that she did not leave the country with the kids, this does not show you as being a deadbeat dad rather the opposite in fact.

I would say it is a very fine line between supporting your kids and having to support them. Refusing to pay is currently the only responsible option i can see right now as everything else hurts the abduction case...!!!

Don't take any paperwork with you other than the paperwork relating to the other court case, stand your ground, and let the UK embassy in Eire know where you will be... And that you require there support in notifying the stand point of the UK government on this.

Also, if you can, contact your MP urgently, and ask if there is anything they can do to get assistance in a court abroad to deal with this, it may well make a huge difference.