Having to work in London more than I'd like

jmd4eva

Dunroamin wrote: »

Why not look at it as being given a free night in London, many people would jump at it!

A free night in London once a week is just a bit too much!

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

Can you make positive suggestions to your manager about how to achieve what's required in these trips without you needing to be there? The cost savings of Skype calls / video conferencing, for example.

I'd say it was quite important to understand WHY your manager wants you there ...

I'm "needed" in London often to work closely with him, call upon other resources there... but mostly, I think it's just so he can "manage" me better - as 70% of our company are remote-managed and I don't think he likes it.

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

What time do you get home when you have been to London? You said it could be anywhere from 6.30pm to 8pm - that's a big difference - what factors into the times? When you say you don't want to miss family time then what would this involve?

Is this travel going to be long term or for a particular shorter period?

What is the reason for your manager wanting you to be in London for 2 days?

I am also voting for going to London for 2 days in a row and working late on first day and then ask to leave early on day 2 as a trade-off.

How about talking with your manager about condensing the hours on the trip to minimise impact on your family life... have you had this conversation / do you think your manager would be receptive?

I do regular long train journeys and use that time to relax - I snooze or read and have a cup of coffee - this way, I don't get so tired from the longer days... how are you using the 2 hour (each way) train trips? Are you getting paid for the extra travel time?

Could you use that time to your advantage?

Here are a few different timings:

• leave at 3.30pm, train at 4.05, arrive at 6:10, taxi back for 6.30
• leave at 4, get the 4.35 train, arrive at 6:40, taxi back for 7
• Leave at 4.30, try and get the 5.05 train, arrive at 7:10, taxi back for 7.30
• If I don't get the 5.05 train, it's the 5.35 where I'd definitely be standing, get back at 7:40 then home by 8.

By family time I also mean just relaxing, chilling at home, having something sensible and nice for dinner, being able to go to the gym.


As far as I know, this is a long-term thing. I also have other travel to Paris every few months for a night or two.


Like I said, the main reason (I think) is so that I can be "managed", but also so I can catch up with people and work with other people.



I have mentioned to him that my travel is really quite long but I don't think he really gets it...


I do actually do work on the train - I save files and things to my laptop so that I can do work for at least an hour each way.


The biggest point for me is that I'm not getting paid for the travel time. Say I do two days in London a week and stay over - that's 6 hours travel time a week - a whole day extra of travel a month. If I do two separate days, that's two days of travel each month.



One thought I had last night is to see if I can get my travel (or even just my evening travel) converted into extra holiday days... what do you think?

Funky_Bold_Ribena

jmd4eva wrote: »

One thought I had last night is to see if I can get my travel (or even just my evening travel) converted into extra holiday days... what do you think?

If your contract says that you work at office A and he gets you to go to office B then you can usually claim TOIL or time paid for the travel from A to B.

If your contract doesn't have you working at A then you could try asking for TOIL for the journey from A to B. It's always worth a try.

jmd4eva

Funky_Bold_Ribena wrote: »

If your contract says that you work at office A and he gets you to go to office B then you can usually claim TOIL or time paid for the travel from A to B.

If your contract doesn't have you working at A then you could try asking for TOIL for the journey from A to B. It's always worth a try.

That's what I thought... but my contract says this:

Your place of work is the X office of the Employer. You may be required to work at any other current or future business site of the Employer within a reasonable traveling distance either on a permanent or temporary basis. You may also be required to travel to and work at such other locations in the UK as the Employer may from time to time reasonably specify.

However... what does "reasonable" mean? Reasonable for who?

Funky_Bold_Ribena

Do you have a TOIL policy?

jmd4eva

Funky_Bold_Ribena wrote: »

Do you have a TOIL policy?

No, nothing I can find on the intranet or in the employee handbook. They aren't a "nice" company, so guessing they won't entertain that...

Funky_Bold_Ribena

You will need to get good at negotiation then!

Any

jmd4eva wrote: »

That's what I thought... but my contract says this:

Your place of work is the X office of the Employer. You may be required to work at any other current or future business site of the Employer within a reasonable traveling distance either on a permanent or temporary basis. You may also be required to travel to and work at such other locations in the UK as the Employer may from time to time reasonably specify.

However... what does "reasonable" mean? Reasonable for who?

6hrs a day journey is not reasonable in any way, shape or form in my opinion.
If this was short term thing, for specific project I would most likely opt for staying over and going with the go home earlier the next day.
But for permanent thing I would definitely walk in with expectation of substantial payrise, because frankly this is not what I signed up for when I took on the job, that I will be either spending 6 hrs travelling twice a week or loosing my family time.

Some people do it - but they knew what the job and conditions were when they took it. Or negotiated better terms when it changed.

I think you need advice on "reasonability" and "change of conditions" from someone with specialisation in employment law to be in strong position to argue this out.

Pete111

jmd4eva wrote: »

No... the staying up option is get to the office for 10am, work until 6pm, stay over, in the office for 8 and leave at 4 - train at 4.35/5.05 then home at 7/7.30...

Not being funny, but a awful lot of folk who live in or around London get home every night after 7pm...it's quite normal.

As such the option you describe above really only seems like one evening is lost to me...

In terms of employment law there is ultimately only one arbiter of whether what they are asking is 'reasonable' - an employment tribunal. If they are asking you to change your working pattern on an ongoing basis then technically they should be formally consulting with you (as they may claim they are doing) but it appears they aren't following a set process.

As such you may be able to push back to them on some process based points but ultimately given the clause you have in your contract, they will feel they can impose this. Your best bet therefore is to seek some form of compromise with your boss. IMHO you don't really want to end up in tribunal on this one.

Tiddlywinks

jmd4eva wrote: »

That's what I thought... but my contract says this:

Your place of work is the X office of the Employer. You may be required to work at any other current or future business site of the Employer within a reasonable traveling distance either on a permanent or temporary basis. You may also be required to travel to and work at such other locations in the UK as the Employer may from time to time reasonably specify.

However... what does "reasonable" mean? Reasonable for who?

I'd ask ACAS... I'm sure they will have an opinion on how 'reasonable' might be defined. Here's the helpline number:

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1410

Tiddlywinks

jmd4eva wrote: »

That's what I thought... but my contract says this:

Your place of work is the X office of the Employer. You may be required to work at any other current or future business site of the Employer within a reasonable traveling distance either on a permanent or temporary basis. You may also be required to travel to and work at such other locations in the UK as the Employer may from time to time reasonably specify.

However... what does "reasonable" mean? Reasonable for who?

Call the ACAS helpline:

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1410

I'm sure they will give some opinion on what is 'reasonable' in this situation.