Help council tax on empty property increasing to 150%

CKhalvashi

Wywth wrote: »

If you want to discuss the councils policy, I suggest you contact your local councillor. If you don't agree with them, then all you can do is display that next time the ballot box comes out.

Of which, in these circumstances, my reply would be that I deal with homeless/sofa surfers on a daily basis, and the property can be rented.

My opinion to the 2nd part of this would be that if you feel you can lose my 2500-ish vote majority (in a 6000 person area), I really don't mind. The bottom line is that I'm probably not going to annoy enough people to not be re-elected anyway.

earl-gray wrote: »

Hi all, Well how many more of us are there in this situation? I have had a similar experience with a renovation project. I have written to my local MP, he said not its really a government decision but I am going to reply and remind him the government put the legislation in place to allow councils to rip us off.
Anyway I have lived in a caravan since April 1st at one property while my wife remained in our other house as our renovation project was not complete and I am willing to challenge them in court as this is totally unfair to anyone concerned.
I do not know if this is even legal as council tax has been paid in good faith at the previous rate until April 2013, the decision was taken to apply the charges from April 2013 in December 2012 so if the charge is applied from April 2013 then the legislation is being applied to a previous period retrospectively and the 2 year period should count from April 2013 not 2011 as it is. I am not sure how it applies to this situation for sure and no doubt the council will have an exemption. I always had the understanding legislation could not be applied retrospectively unless it was an exceptional safety issue, maybe a legal person can advise/confirm?
Our council tax inspector visited yesterday 25/7/13 to check my project as after a conversation with manager at the council tax office I was told if my roof was complete I would only be charged 100% not the 150% as they then consider it habitable (there is a bit of history with this inspector asking intrusive and private inappropriate questions on her previous visit) this time she just asked if the roof was on and was I using any part of the house as it has curtains up in a room (did not request to look inside) I said yes to both and she went away I will see what happens and report back.
I have requested a copy of the legislation and or guidelines from my council that they work from for reference as I want to stay inside the law. I know a lot of it is down to interpretation but you can guess weather my request was granted or NOT can't you!!!!

This is one that I may be willing to fight on the other hand, however again, if the property was completely habitable (dry, with heating, sanitation and water supply), then I'd probably be a little less likely to for the above reasons.

You may be worth posting this on a new thread, as we have a planning officer on the boards that will be able to look into this further with you.

CK

Wywth

earl-gray wrote: »

Hi all, Well how many more of us are there in this situation? I have had a similar experience with a renovation project. I have written to my local MP, he said not its really a government decision but I am going to reply and remind him the government put the legislation in place to allow councils to rip us off.

The government passed legislation giving more financial control to local government in line with the coalition agreement

The parties will promote the radical devolution of power and greater financial autonomy to local government and community groups.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8677933.stm (end of section 6)

earl-gray wrote: »

Anyway I have lived in a caravan since April 1st at one property while my wife remained in our other house as our renovation project was not complete and I am willing to challenge them in court as this is totally unfair to anyone concerned.
I do not know if this is even legal as council tax has been paid in good faith at the previous rate until April 2013, the decision was taken to apply the charges from April 2013 in December 2012 so if the charge is applied from April 2013 then the legislation is being applied to a previous period retrospectively and the 2 year period should count from April 2013 not 2011 as it is. I am not sure how it applies to this situation for sure and no doubt the council will have an exemption. I always had the understanding legislation could not be applied retrospectively unless it was an exceptional safety issue, maybe a legal person can advise/confirm?
Our council tax inspector visited yesterday 25/7/13 to check my project as after a conversation with manager at the council tax office I was told if my roof was complete I would only be charged 100% not the 150% as they then consider it habitable (there is a bit of history with this inspector asking intrusive and private inappropriate questions on her previous visit) this time she just asked if the roof was on and was I using any part of the house as it has curtains up in a room (did not request to look inside) I said yes to both and she went away I will see what happens and report back.
I have requested a copy of the legislation and or guidelines from my council that they work from for reference as I want to stay inside the law. I know a lot of it is down to interpretation but you can guess weather my request was granted or NOT can't you!!!!

I don't fully understand.

If you are separated and living apart, you should each be paying council tax on your individual homes.

Are you separated? Are you really living apart? e.g. are all your letters, bills etc sent to the caravan and are your wife's bills, letters etc sent to the property under renovation. Is there evidence she actually lives there?

Are your individual belongings stored at your respective homes and nothing at the others home?

She couldn't have been living there if there was no roof on.

Edit: Here's the relevent legislation I think you were after
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/17/contents/enacted

HTH

CIS

Edit: Here's the relevent legislation I think you were after
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ntents/enacted

That's the one.

so if the charge is applied from April 2013 then the legislation is being applied to a previous period retrospectively and the 2 year period should count from April 2013 not 2011 as it is

Section 15 specifically covers the issue of the 2 year period and confirms that it can begin prior to the new regulations coming in to force. Any period that was empty prior to 01 April 2013 is to be taken in to account when applying the new rules from 01 April 13 onwards.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/17/section/12/enacted#section-12-2

CIS

I would only be charged 100% not the 150% as they then consider it habitable

Being habitable or not has no effect on whether the 50% premium applies or nor - the criteria are

For the purposes of this section, a dwelling is a “long-term empty dwelling” on any day if for a continuous period of at least 2 years ending with that day—
(a)it has been unoccupied, and
(b)it has been substantially unfurnished.

Indecisivebuyer

Hi Sorry know it an old thread but perhaps someone has advice.


Late last year bought a vacant property for my son, he is renting at the moment. Used savings.


Requiring some renovation new kitchen, bathroom, d!cor, upgrades etc.


He is currently paying full council tax on it from purchase date, as it had previously been empty for more than a year and council told him if he did not move in they would charge him 200% tax


But he is still paying full tax on his rental


Work on house will be as time money permits, so will be empty for next few months.


He is now suggesting informing council it is empty again to see if they will give him an exemption?


He is struggling to pay both at moment.


Not sure about legality of this?


Any advice
Thankyou

fed_up_and_stressed

Unless the property is currently derelict or incapable of inhabitation then is is unlikely he would be able to get an exemption for major works, indecisivebuyer.

A lot of people seem sadly to think an upgrade of manky kitchen units will entitle them to exemption under "major works" rules however find themselves with a bill they weren't expecting. When they should really have contacted the council before taking the work / property on for specific guidance.

Some councils offer discounts for uninhabited properties however the rules vary council to council and as has been mentioned if the property is unoccupied and substantially unfurnished for 2 years or more may end up costing 150% council tax from then.

CIS

Unless the property is currently derelict or incapable of inhabitation then is is unlikely he would be able to get an exemption for major works, indecisivebuyer.

There is no exemption now (formerly a Class A exemption) - it's now a Class D discount which is set at a local level.

Indecisivebuyer

Hi
Thanks for the replies.


He seems to think that because he has paid for two months full tax as though property was occupied, he can now tell council it is now unoccupied and it would now be classed as empty and would attract an exemption again for a period??


From council website below


If the property is unfurnished, an exemption may be awarded for up to 6 months from the date it was last occupied. After this you may be awarded a 50% discount for 6 months then after 12 months the discount will end and the charge will increase to 200%.


His landlord has told him, he does not now buy empty houses to upgrade, as if empty more than a year he has to pay the 200% while renovations / upgrades are carried out.


There appears to be lots of properties now like this in the area, that now no one will touch to eventually buy and call home, rent out, or sell on.


I am worried that if he tells house is now "empty" again he will be hit with 200%


Thanks

CIS

He seems to think that because he has paid for two months full tax as though property was occupied, he can now tell council it is now unoccupied and it would now be classed as empty and would attract an exemption again for a period??

Paying 2 months council tax doesn't make a difference - what matters is the status of the property. If the property has remained unoccupied and unfinished for a period of 2 years or more then the premium still applies. The text you have quoted isn't relevant in this situation.

His landlord has told him, he does not now buy empty houses to upgrade, as if empty more than a year he has to pay the 200% while renovations / upgrades are carried out.

He's understanding it wrong, it's 2 years, not 1.

Indecisivebuyer

CIS wrote: »

Paying 2 months council tax doesn't make a difference - what matters is the status of the property. If the property has remained unoccupied and unfinished for a period of 2 years or more then the premium still applies. The text you have quoted isn't relevant in this situation.



He's understanding it wrong, it's 2 years, not 1.

Sorry do not understand? Where does 2 years come in?


Our local council does state 1 year last from last unoccupied, then they will charge new owner 200% from purchase date unless they move in, then normal 100% applies.


My son says council thinks property is now occupied as he has paid tax 100%.


But thinks if he notifies them he is moving out and house is now again unoccupied he will get empty property allowance from beginning allowing time to renovate?


Full text from council

If you own a furnished property no-one is living in you may get a discount of 10% for up to 12 months from the date it was last occupied.
If the property is unfurnished, an exemption may be awarded for up to 6 months from the date it was last occupied. After this you may be awarded a 50% discount for 6 months then after 12 months the discount will end and the charge will increase to 200%.
If the property is undergoing major repair work and no-one is living there, you may get a renovation exemption for up to 12 months from the date the property was last occupied.

A 50% discount can be considered for the following:

• - New owner of a property may get 6 months discount from the date of purchase of a property if major repair work required to make it habitable and has failed to qualify for the renovation exemption.
• - Purpose-built holiday home where charged council tax eg used for holiday purposes but has to be vacated at certain times.
• - Tied accommodation - property is provided by your employer and part of your contract of employment.

The time limit for a 10% discount can be extended under the following circumstances:-

• - For up to 24 months from the date last occupied if the property is being actively marketed for sale or let.
• - Indefinitely if the property is a second home.
  
  
  Thanks