Dad's dentures

fruitcake_2

Could do with some help with this...I'm not sure if my dad is getting ripped off. He's getting more and more scared of telling us when he is in pain, he hates "confrontation" or hassle of any sort...as he puts it, there by causing more concern when we find that something is wrong....sorry.....getting to the point, dad has had a number of dentures made by a certain dentist, local to him, some he has shelled quite a lot of money out for some free, but they have all broken. He had an emergency repair done on a set of dentures that cracked and he was charged £40, because apparently there was no money left in his budget??
The dentist told him that he can make him some privately for the upper and lower for just over £600!! It sounds extortionate to me, especially since they have all broken within two months....in the past.

I would really appreciate some advice on this, I don't know what his rights are and where else he can go to get better ones, and what they are supposed to cost...?

Yogibear

that sounds about right speaking from experience I was going to get a plate for

4 teeth at the top I was quoted £361,the ones on the nhs were quoted at £170

but the usual guff from the dentist "they are not so good" I suppose they get

more profit from the private ones,am I cynical?yes!!

I still have the old set now for 3 years

fruitcake_2

wow really...? The dentist told my dad he had to have most of his teeth knocked out, which he did....but his dentures have not lasted more than 6 months each time.....I wonder what the guarantees or warranties are for these....plus I'm sure i read something about heart patients getting extra care you know the link with gum disease to cardiovascular disease....

Savvy_Sue

Might be worth asking this on the Health board, or doing a search for dentures over there. There are a couple of dentists over there who are usually very helpful and knowledgeable.

The first question in my mind would be whether Dad is treating his dentures right or whether there's something he's doing which is adding to the problem. Not sure what you can do to dentures, but ... And the second would be whether the dentures aren't quite fitting right and are therefore breaking. Just thinking how uncomfortable it is when a new filling's been left a bit 'proud' and how hard it is NOT to bite too hard on it.

Garnet_Gem

My grandad use to use a Stanley file to make his dentures fit properly so they must have been made of stonger stuff long ago!!!!

beedeedee

Dentists aren't the only people who can fit and supply dentures! Look in the phone book for Denture Clinics. They'll sort him out. I paid £160 for a top plate less than two years ago.

Toothsmith

beedeedee wrote: »

Dentists aren't the only people who can fit and supply dentures! Look in the phone book for Denture Clinics. They'll sort him out. I paid £160 for a top plate less than two years ago.

Dentists are the only people who can do it legally.

Technicians doing it is illegal in this country. They can make copy dentures from existing dentures, but if the problem is that they're always breaking, then a copy won't help much.

Many technicians who do decide to break the law like this charge very similar prices to what a private dentist in the same area would be.

They are not inspected (As they shouldn't be doing it) and so are completely unregulated. They have no need to apply the same standards of hygine and cross-infection control as is found in a dental surgery.

They have no training in spotting other problems around the mouth (e.g. early signs of mouth cancer) and should anything go badly wrong, they have no liability insurance.

Yes - you can find places that will do it. Just like you can find cowboys who'll do a 'cheap' job on your roof.

What you have to ask is can you afford that cheap job?

Toothsmith

fruitcake wrote: »

Could do with some help with this...I'm not sure if my dad is getting ripped off. He's getting more and more scared of telling us when he is in pain, he hates "confrontation" or hassle of any sort...as he puts it, there by causing more concern when we find that something is wrong....sorry.....getting to the point, dad has had a number of dentures made by a certain dentist, local to him, some he has shelled quite a lot of money out for some free, but they have all broken. He had an emergency repair done on a set of dentures that cracked and he was charged £40, because apparently there was no money left in his budget??
The dentist told him that he can make him some privately for the upper and lower for just over £600!! It sounds extortionate to me, especially since they have all broken within two months....in the past.

I would really appreciate some advice on this, I don't know what his rights are and where else he can go to get better ones, and what they are supposed to cost...?

The thing with making dentures on the NHS is that is has to be done as cheaply as possible.

Making a full denture will earn a dentist 12UDAs (That's units of dental activity.)

A dentist has to achieve a certain number of UDAs each financial year in order to maintain his NHS funding.

So, if you divide the amount of UDAs the dentist has to achieve by the total contract value - then it gets a figure of between £13 and £20 per UDA for a dentist.

So - that means a denture is 'worth' about £157 - £240 to the dentist. (The patient's £189 fee is just like a prescription charge, and is knocked off the dentist's monthly cheque).

The dentures I make cost me about £180 - £270 in technicians fees alone. (I'm purely private)

So you can see that there's no way I could use the technician I use if I was ever mad enough to try and provide an NHS set for anybody ever again!

It also takes me about 1 1/2 - 2h of surgery time (Over about 5-6 visits on average)to do everything that needs to be done, and to give the patient long enough to express accurately what they would like things to look and feel like.

Surgery time generally works out between £130 and £200 ph depending on the area and how 'nice' you like to make your practice look.

I could bash through it a bit quicker I suppose, but it would be a lesser service.

So - a dentist still working on the NHS has to source the cheapest denture he can get made, and spend as little surgery time on it as he can get away with.

It's probably a reasonable service for most people, but if something out-of-the-ordinary happens, such as a patient with a particularly strong bite -then you're going to have problems.

I would ask the dentist exactly how the private dentures will differ from the ones he's had before and what guarantees he's prepared to give with it.

If you want to find a different dentist, then ask around and get recommendations. That's by far the best way to find a new dentist.

Once you have a few names - then go and visit the practices and ask questions about the services you want. A good place will be more than happy to take the time to answer your questions.

Book him in with the one you feel will give the best service - not necessarily the cheapest (providing he/you can afford it)

Toothsmith

Garnet_Gem wrote: »

My grandad use to use a Stanley file to make his dentures fit properly so they must have been made of stonger stuff long ago!!!!

Not necessarily. You can get some people who are quite careful and skillful with their tools - and some who are completely cack-handed!

I wouldn't recommend DIY adjustments though!

beedeedee

I had a much better job made by my Denture Specialist than any previous dentist. His premises were a darn site more hygenic than most dentists I've known and he was far more skilled in making a new denture - yes, with all the impressions required etc. than any dentist I've had dealings with. I'm one in a long line of satisfied clients I'm afraid.
I would never go back to a "Dentist" for ANYTHING to do with dentures.

Toothsmith

beedeedee wrote: »

I had a much better job made by my Denture Specialist than any previous dentist. His premises were a darn site more hygenic than most dentists I've known and he was far more skilled in making a new denture - yes, with all the impressions required etc. than any dentist I've had dealings with. I'm one in a long line of satisfied clients I'm afraid.
I would never go back to a "Dentist" for ANYTHING to do with dentures.

That's fine, but the point remains it is an illegal, and therefore totally uninsured, unregulated and unmonitored by anybody.

You may have been lucky. If you hadn't been, your only course would have been a criminal prosecution, and magistrates, in the rare cases that anybody brings to court, generally impose a fine no bigger than the cost of a couple of dentures.

I have heard of a great many stories of technician provided dentures though, and some of the basic clinical things they miss.


Oh - And as it's an illegal service, do you suppose that the technician will be putting the fees he gets through the books and paying tax on them?

I could do my job much cheaper if I didn't have to pay Gordon his share!!!